anime

[Gormongous]

Nice you watched three anime that I really enjoyed.

Weird that you had the exact opposite reaction to Space Dandy, where I found it actively offputting for the first few episodes and then grew to love it from there.

I say I really enjoyed Silver Spoon, but also still wouldn't call it great. It's a nice heartwarming thing to watch though if that's what you're in the mood for.

I really enjoyed realizing that Humanity Has Declined

rubs its episodes in reverse chronological order. I think I read that the manga doesn't do that but whatever. It worked for me, even if it took a while for me to catch on

. Best thing about it was that it's post apocalyptic, but with overwhelming whimsy with a touch of melancholy, rather than oppressive and omnipresent depression. I like my post apocalyptic nonsense, and it's cool to see such a weirdly unique take on it.

 

I liked the premise of Space Dandy, but it quickly became clear that the majority of the show was going to be these uneven one-offs without even a framework like Excel Saga had holding it together. I'm sure watching it all at once did it no good service, either.

 

I bought Jintai and I might rewatch it in "proper" order someday, although a blogger I respect did that and didn't get much out of it besides a bit better perspective on the characters.

 

Good timing. I just finished re-watching this with my wife a couple weeks ago (ended up buying it on blu ray) and came to discover that there was a 25th episode that wasn't available on Hulu when I originally watched it. So much more closure than I originally got having only watched through episode 24!

 

That last scene by the car on the side of the highway was very powerful and just put a nice bow on everything. I also really like the humor in this episode revolving around American culture. Very spot on. It was hilarious and great to see Okabe more or less back to his normal self after his horrific ordeal. And Jesus Christ the character development in this show is superb, I just can't get over how well this story was told and how much impact it had emotionally. My wife loved it too! She still has her anime defenses up and is very resistant to admitting that she likes any of these shows but she ended up getting sucked in and loved it. Our tastes are quite different so I think it speaks volumes about how good Steins;Gate is.

 

I plan to watch it again at some point with the English dubs just to see what that experience is like. I expect it to suck balls and don't see how they are going to translate the scenes where Okabe tries to say something in English but whatever.

 

There's a movie, too. It's also good, although somewhat removed from the emotional arc of the series. I wouldn't be optimistic about the dub, since it's FUNimation's stable of actors, so it's probably a bunch of serviceable performances that aren't particularly suited to the characters. I know Syn has much stronger opinions about the FUNi dub factory.

[chummer]

Does Princess Jellyfish get transphobic? Watched a few eps and while obviously a lot of characters are really uncomfortable with Kuranosuke's cross-dressing, I'm curious if the show's treatment of the character is going to fuck it up.

[Twig]

I don't think so, but I'm not trans, so I don't know. He just kind of owns the fact that he likes to wear lady clothes.

[Blambo]

Honestly, I liked the first four episodes enough that the rest were bound to disappoint me. I like the basic groundwork of the show, which was created entirely as a melting pot for the leftovers from Kon's movies, but by the time I saw Paranoia Agent, I'd already seen other shows that devoted more time and energy to the best ideas that had been built upon that groundwork. Boogiepop Phantom (and to a lesser extent, Serial Experiments Lain) did rumor-fueled serial crime better, Ghost in the Shell: SAC did crime-as-meme and questions of responsibility for ideas better, End of Evangelion did all-consuming-entity built from a fucked-up psyche better... It was cool to see them all filtered through Kon's unique directorial talent, but I have such trouble thinking of it as groundbreaking. As I've written before, I know a lot of that is because of circumstance, and sometimes I wish it otherwise, but there you go.

 

Shounen Bat is an awesome concept, though, and one that's completely singular for Paranoia Agent.

Yeah also the commentary on Japan's entertainment culture isn't as new as I thought it was. The thing I liked about it though was that it wasn't completely hypocritical, considering it's a piece geared solely towards social commentary rather than parody. No characters felt overly cool or overly cute, and any cheap feeling references or tropes were used to further the tension and weirdness of the show's tone. I haven't gotten into Lain, Boogiepop Phantom, or Evangelion (though everyone tells me to do so) because at first glance they all seem to rely on gimmicks or really basic sources of appeal that feel way too indulgent (though this is based on complete conjecture. Most of my "serious anime/manga" experience is in the form of shonen comics and ghibli films).

 

The final fantasy episode in particular felt like it had the most potential to be a cheap sneer at a specific subculture. But that was fixed in the next episode when the delusion itself was invented by the fake shonen bat to absolve him of any responsibility. Every time something shows up that feels like it might be a cheap throwaway explanation, it becomes clear that it was meant to be that and works toward the show's main theme.

 

I just completed Lucky Star. It's basically impossible for me to get any of the references but that was cushioned by the quality of the animation and overall mindlessness of some of the humor. I've basically given up on sticking to "smart" series (part of an overall push to stop being a smug dick) and have been consuming anime designed to be pure entertainment. Gintama so far is pretty great.

[chummer]

Uhhhhh, Princess Jellyfish is slowly turning into Sabrina?

 

I'm into the social misfit gals living together bits more than the romantic comedy bits so far. Kuranosuke's motivations to cross-dress haven't been quite fleshed out yet and that makes me anxious because I feel like that's where the transphobia may be hidden. Here's hoping it's not!

[Ozzie]

There's thankfully none, don't worry.

[Blambo]

Ahh I recently watched that. I'm kinda mixed on it. I feel like only trying halfway to escape from anime character tropes is working against it. The character designs are interesting and visually portray women as actual people with different body shapes and features, but the actual characters are really one dimensional. Maybe it's just me but it feels less dissonant for series to have totally idealized designs and bland personalities because you go in expecting trashy flatness. Having one without the other feels kind of weird. Another thing was its portrayal of obsessions and obscure hobbies as all encompassing personality engulfers is weird to me and leads to some cheap jokes and flat characters, and kind of made things boring and unsubtle.

Though anyway I like that kuranosuke is portrayed as a well adjusted, though kind of boisterous, guy. The jokey parts that focus on his crossdressing seem to highlight differences and prejudices in the other characters rather than forcing a sense of abnormality on him. I also liked that he isn't portrayed as especially flamboyant or campy (his personality seems really "shounen" compared to some of the other male characters). So I feel like the cross dressing isn't the main part of his character and is quite gracefully portrayed as a thing that's not a problem within him but a problem other characters might have with him. It doesn't go too deep into the subject though, which I think is fine, mostly because the character itself is not intended to be a transgendered person (I think he established in the second episode that he just likes to wear women's clothing, and that he's not a "boy who wants to be a girl"). The focus is less on his internal landscape and more how he's treated by his family and peers.

Unrelated thing I liked about this anime: if I read it right, the theme of overcoming uncomfortableness with society's expectations of beauty and turning it around to work in your favor is really really positive and optimistic. It was cool to see that in an anime.

[Gaizokubanou]

Anyone here finished Psychopass?  This shouldn't be a spoiler... let's just say that in the series there is a big reveal moment and IMO I think that reveal turned out to be completely unnecessary and ended up lowering the overall quality of the show.  I wonder what others who watched that show felt about that?

[Codicier]

Anyone here finished Psychopass?  This shouldn't be a spoiler... let's just say that in the series there is a big reveal moment and IMO I think that reveal turned out to be completely unnecessary and ended up lowering the overall quality of the show.  I wonder what others who watched that show felt about that?

I watched season 1, but although it was watchable enough it didn't really grab me that strongly. Are you talking about the reveal that happens about 2/3 of the way through s1 or have they thrown in something similar in s2?

[Gaizokubanou]

I watched season 1, but although it was watchable enough it didn't really grab me that strongly. Are you talking about the reveal that happens about 2/3 of the way through s1 or have they thrown in something similar in s2?

 

I didn't watch S2 but yes, that reveal happens around 2/3 of the way through.

 

Just to be certain, I'm talking about the Sybil's brain reveal.  That was just... so pointless.

[chummer]

Finished the one season available for Princess Jellyfish on Netflix and Blambo really nailed a lot of my thoughts in regards to the show and Kuranosuke in particular. I was expecting it to dig deeper into ideas of femininity/masculinity as performance, but it's also okay having a character that is transvestite without making the show focus on that one thing.

 

 

Unrelated thing I liked about this anime: if I read it right, the theme of overcoming uncomfortableness with society's expectations of beauty and turning it around to work in your favor is really really positive and optimistic. It was cool to see that in an anime.

 

This was interesting because the other instances of a character using their femininity to accomplish things is when Kuranosuke gets the pet-shop owner to sell Tsukimi the jellyfish after the shop is closed, and Inari who is portrayed as a femme fatale. I'm not quite sure what to draw from this yet, but it's been something I've been mulling over.

 

I think the strongest feelings I have about any character is Koibuchi. Fuck that dude. He's already so daft that he can't tell Tsukimi is the same woman when she puts makeup on, but there's a scene where he slaps a woman for not a particularly good reason. The show also let's the woman conclude "He hit me because he cares about me." That's an actual "epiphany" a character had and it was really disappointing.

 

Aside from that huge caveat, I thought the show was really charming. I think I'm going to dive into Samurai Champloo next as Cara Ellison mentioned it in passing in the top ten list she did for Giant Bomb this year.

[Twig]

There is no season two of Princess Jellyfish.

[Codicier]

While we are sorta on the topic, what do those watching it feel about the treatment of Trans characters in Log Horizon?

So far my own feelings are extremely mixed, there seems to be some genuinely enlightened attitudes to it in the abstract because of the MMO theme it's highly implied there are a lot of men who play as women & vice versa, and that it's seen as relatively normal.

Most intrestingly Its possible for instance to have a female player, with a male character who may in turn cross dress within the game.

But so far the only confirmed Trans characters introduced have been really not much more than tropes.

[Twig]

well i think it's just me and you watching but

 

Yeah it's been mentioned that everyone who played an opposite-gender started out with their own voice which then changed. Tetra is... definitely very tropey. Worse than that she's just an annoying character, so it just amplifies the problem, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe she'll get better as the series continues. Buuut also overall it's not... outright terrible? It's hard for me to say since I often have trouble identifying trans issues in fiction. ):

 

Are there others? I was only aware of Tetra. (I mean besides Akatsuki starting out as a dude before Shiroe gave her a potion to swap back.)

 

I still hate every single episode where Akatsuki and Minori fight-but-not-quite-fight over Shiroe's affection with him being oblivious about the whole thing. I mean, that's such a typical anime thing to do, so you'd think i'd be used to it, but instead I just get more and more tired of it. Doesn't help that they're both extremely young in appearance (although Akatsuki is allegedly the same age as Shiroe). Ugh ugh it's the worst thing about the series.

[Blambo]

Finished the one season available for Princess Jellyfish on Netflix and Blambo really nailed a lot of my thoughts in regards to the show and Kuranosuke in particular. I was expecting it to dig deeper into ideas of femininity/masculinity as performance, but it's also okay having a character that is transvestite without making the show focus on that one thing.

 

 

 

This was interesting because the other instances of a character using their femininity to accomplish things is when Kuranosuke gets the pet-shop owner to sell Tsukimi the jellyfish after the shop is closed, and Inari who is portrayed as a femme fatale. I'm not quite sure what to draw from this yet, but it's been something I've been mulling over.

 

I think the strongest feelings I have about any character is Koibuchi. Fuck that dude. He's already so daft that he can't tell Tsukimi is the same woman when she puts makeup on, but there's a scene where he slaps a woman for not a particularly good reason. The show also let's the woman conclude "He hit me because he cares about me." That's an actual "epiphany" a character had and it was really disappointing.

 

Aside from that huge caveat, I thought the show was really charming. I think I'm going to dive into Samurai Champloo next as Cara Ellison mentioned it in passing in the top ten list she did for Giant Bomb this year.

 

It's good that Koibuchi is developed to be a kind of comedically pathetic guy though. Come to think of it, besides Kuranosuke the male characters in the show are either hilariously inept or shown to be kind dicks. Also I read the "epiphany" as Inari realizing that her tactics and lifestyle affect other people emotionally. To me she kind of represented the more sinister side of playing along with society's expectations, in that it can turn you into a sociopathic jerk with self esteem problems. I see that less as a weakness inherent in the gender of the character (as this trope is often baked into a character being an attractive woman, ie "all attractive women are vain") and more in how she operates in a power structure stacked the way it is, if only because the show shows the polar opposite of this situation manifested in the sisterhood. Anyway if that was the case it wasn't indicated obviously enough for me to remember any details surrounding it.

 

Not to scare you off of the show, but I had the same kind of disappointment in Samurai Champloo as I had in Princess Jellyfish concerning anime character conventions and plots. I expected that the lush animation, interesting setting, and unique art direction indicated that it was a little different in the story department but it's kind of just...well it has a shonen target audience. Not that such an expectation is sane at all (it's an anime about swordfightin') but just in case you're as snobby as I am, don't expect it to be revolutionary.

 

Also not to say that I hate nonsense shonen anime. I've been watching Gintama and it has moments of comedic genius couched in really unironically dumb stories and characters. But it's stupid to expect anything different when it seems to sell the comedy part a lot more than the latter part and seems to realize that the shonen plot twists and cool action are there to sell to the base.

 

Stuff I finished recently:

 

1. Lucky Star

2. Azumanga Daioh

3. Paranoia Agent

4. Level E

5. Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun

[Codicier]

well i think it's just me and you watching but

Yeah it's been mentioned that everyone who played an opposite-gender started out with their own voice which then changed. Tetra is... definitely very tropey. Worse than that she's just an annoying character, so it just amplifies the problem, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe she'll get better as the series continues. Buuut also overall it's not... outright terrible? It's hard for me to say since I often have trouble identifying trans issues in fiction. ):

Are there others? I was only aware of Tetra. (I mean besides Akatsuki starting out as a dude before Shiroe gave her a potion to swap back.)

I still hate every single episode where Akatsuki and Minori fight-but-not-quite-fight over Shiroe's affection with him being oblivious about the whole thing. I mean, that's such a typical anime thing to do, so you'd think i'd be used to it, but instead I just get more and more tired of it. Doesn't help that they're both extremely young in appearance (although Akatsuki is allegedly the same age as Shiroe). Ugh ugh it's the worst thing about the series.

It's more that a world where you essentially have the concept of gender identiy as choice accepted in a way that it is not in our own society has the potential to say intresting things.

Case in point: Tetra

So we are told she is 'a boy' dressing a girl', (something she doesn't seem to mind others noticing, but doesn't go out of her way to point out), to me is a intresting choice in a world where physical sex change now is trivial if you have the right knowledge. She's not 'stuck' how she's is it's 100% something she's chosing to do.

Equally we don't know if the player behind Tetra started as male or female, and well frankly it could be either. Is this a female 'soul' who finds herself stuck in a new male body trying to reassert her femininity, or is it a male 'soul' who wasn't happy with his old 'real' body.

[Twig]

I'm confused are you disagreeing with anything I said. Because I'm not disagreeing with anything you said but it seems like you might be?!

[chummer]

Also I read the "epiphany" as Inari realizing that her tactics and lifestyle affect other people emotionally.

 

Looking back, that definitely feels like a more accurate reading of her emotions, but it's still couched in the act of "putting her in her place with a good hit."

 

 

Not to scare you off of the show, but I had the same kind of disappointment in Samurai Champloo as I had in Princess Jellyfish concerning anime character conventions and plots.

 

My experience with anime is sparse enough that I still don't see how shows work against archetypes and conventions within the medium. Before six months ago, the extent of my anime watching included only Akira, Fist of the North Star, a little Dragon Ball, Pokemon (does that even count?), and Spirited Away. (I was going to jokingly list Jackie Chan Adventures, but I'll spare ya'll). I'm a few eps into Champloo and though the two aren't really comparable, I found Princess Jellyfish delightful right off the bat while the only thing that has gotten me really intrigued in Champloo is that Nujabes had a hand in some of the music. It seems a short enough run that I might stick it out.

 

 

There is no season two of Princess Jellyfish.

 

Perfect! Feel like I got my fill of that show anyway.

[Gormongous]

Not to scare you off of the show, but I had the same kind of disappointment in Samurai Champloo as I had in Princess Jellyfish concerning anime character conventions and plots. I expected that the lush animation, interesting setting, and unique art direction indicated that it was a little different in the story department but it's kind of just...well it has a shonen target audience. Not that such an expectation is sane at all (it's an anime about swordfightin') but just in case you're as snobby as I am, don't expect it to be revolutionary.

 

Also not to say that I hate nonsense shonen anime. I've been watching Gintama and it has moments of comedic genius couched in really unironically dumb stories and characters. But it's stupid to expect anything different when it seems to sell the comedy part a lot more than the latter part and seems to realize that the shonen plot twists and cool action are there to sell to the base.

 

In a way, it's good to see you arriving at a point that it took me until age 26 or 27 to reach, where I finally learned to recognize the shounen foundations for so many "great" shows after almost a decade of watching anime and started to resent them from it. Like I think I've said elsewhere in this thread, it was probably watching all of Rurouni Kenshin, even the stuff after the Kyoto arc that is universally considered execrable, that forced me to advance my tastes a bit more aggressively. It's weird, because my junior year of college I watched the entire hundred-episode run of the first Naruto filler arc and managed to derive some kind of enjoyment out of it, but no more.

 

Basically, you have two choices once you begin to sour on shounen-type anime, which has the greatest penetration and visibility in American media culture due to its (often superficial) resemblances to traditional Western cartoons: you either build out your knowledge of anime so you can seek out stuff that doesn't have any shounen influences, or you can learn to appreciate shounen anime in spite of what a pile of shit it often is deep down. If you're interested in the former, I'd recommend looking into more shoujo- or josei-type stuff, it's worth your time.

 

Perfect! Feel like I got my fill of that show anyway.

 

I feel like it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy with Princess Jellyfish, because all of the things that were handled the worst in what is overall a fairly good anime were because it was (or felt, at least) obligated to cram the first major plot arc of a fourteen-volume manga, complete with all of its characters, into a twelve-episode half-cour. There was a string of shows getting screwed like that, but Japanese production companies seem to be a bit better now about using a half-cour to test the first half for a full season of a show, rather than just to leave it out to twist.

[Twig]

i have known and recognized shounen tropes for a long time and i like 'em [...usually] so fuck all y'all ]';

[Codicier]

I'm confused are you disagreeing with anything I said. Because I'm not disagreeing with anything you said but it seems like you might be?!

 

My read was that I feel it's potential re: gender was that it could actually say quite important/intresting but that you maybe were saying "well what have they actually done with that potential?" (answer not all that much).

 

Idk its just the only other mainstream works i can think of where gender is so fluid is Iain M Banks Culture books, who's society is basically supposed to be a near perfect liberal utopia.

[Twig]

Oh okay. Yeah there's definitely potential there. 

 

And now that you bring it up, it's weird how transphobic gamers can be when they're quite often playing as opposite genders with no qualms whatsoever. Well, maybe I'm projecting. I've tended to play as female characters more often than male these days when I have the choice (maybe my growing feministic tendencies?), but I guess the typical answer is "if i'm gonna stare at an ass all day", etc. I think I just talked myself out of any optimism regarding gaming culture.

 

Anyway back to Log Horizon: definitely definitely potential. I'm hoping, but not really optimistic, that they'll do something cool with gender identity*. I... I say I'm not optimistic because, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I'm not as happy with the direction the series has taken this season as I was previously. As much as I loved William Massachusett's (THAT NAME, SO GOOD) speech, most of the series has seemed to focus a bit too much on the Gaming part. Thoguh I say that but I guess I really really liked the conclusion to both the Akatsuki arc (although it was a bit flat) and the Shiroe arc (so baller, loved how the raid boss was afraid because these enemies just kept respawning over and over and who wouldn't be afraid of that?).

 

...Log Horizon is cool.

 

Except when it's not. Fucking (Minori vs Akatsuki) x Shiroe.

 

*.hack//SIGN sorta did that, as I recall, with the main character being a male played by a female person, and I think I THINK there was a romantic relationship between the female-as-male and female-as-female characters? The main character was also in a wheelchair and also anyone who died in-game died in real life so whatever that was its own series.

[Gaizokubanou]

There are few female characters that made me want to be a girl.

 

Oddly enough, Kill la Kill was one (a show where most hate comes from its overtly done fan-servicing).  Watching that show didn't make me want Ryuko, I wanted to be her with all the periods the world would give me.

 

Games are different because I always feel like character I control is my possession rather than my avatar.  Also to cheer you up Twig remember poison from Capcom, a character who gained fame through becoming a transgender which was done due to some importing culture issue.

[Twig]

I watched The Garden of Words. I don't remember what people had to say about it in this thread, but my thoughts: WOW this is so dang pretty, pretty as all heck. I am a fan if for no reason other than the way it looks. Story-wise, I'm not so happy with the decision to make the relationship semi-to-fully-romantic. I think it would've done better without that. But SO SO PRETTY!

 

I also watched "episodes 14 and 15" of Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, one of which is a throwaway episode about Ledo (the main dude character) not knowing what the word "ghost" means, and one of which is a sort of alternate-perspective episode of an important event in the story. Neither was necessary. I then started the first OVA episode, which takes place after the series ends, but I didn't finish it yet. I love how bright and colorful Gargantia is. That's cool.

 

Also finished all of these I guess:

• Rage of Bahamut: Genesis: Remained way better than it should've been, but dipped in quality a bit when it went into major exposition mode for a few of the later episodes. Still, fun. I don't know how. But... I'm not going to complain.
• Amagi Brilliant Park: Incredibly goofy for the first 9 or 10 episodes, it suddenly goes serious without really earning it? But then it earns it after going serious, in my opinion. Good anime. Good characters. Also Kanye and Latifa and probably other rapper names for no reason? Yeah sure whatever!
• Death Billiards: I mostly watched it because Madhouse, so I knew it'd at least look good. Little one-off 20-minute short (being expanded into a series this upcoming season, apparently), it definitely looks good, and is sorta interesting. An old dude and a young dude end up in a bar together and are told they're going to play some 8-ball and they're risking their lives
  they're both dead already and this is a sort of contest to see how they act and see who goes to heaven/hell, or something

  . Silly and over the top, but not bad?

• Kick-Heart: A short kickstarted by the always-great Masaaki Yuasa. A love story about two wrestlers. Looks great. Looks Yuasa. Good.
• Denki-Gai no Honya-san: This is a pretty adorable series for the most part, but I don't like the Zombie Girl/Sommelier relationship because he's just a giant dude and she's young and loli and I hate that. I loved all of the other characters besides Zombie Girl. I even liked Sommelier, just hated that relationship. Anyway, yeah. I liked most of it, though. The other two romantic relationships were fun, even if they were utterly stereotypical. (Also it's not all about the romance, it's more just about a bunch of coworkers being friends and doing wacky things. Slice-of-life in a comic store.)

[BadHat]

Garden of Words is so pretty.