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miffy495

Prince Of Persia

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As my signature has alluded to for a while, I've been playing through Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time for the first time ever over the last couple of weeks. I beat it about 15 minutes ago, (Easiest boss fight in the history of ever) and am looking for more. I know that the official Thumb company line of Warrior Within is that it sucks, but the general sentiment I'm getting from the rest of the internet is either "YEAH!!!! NOW YOU CAN DECAPITATE SHIT!!!" (probably not going to be in agreement with that one) or "Well, the 'X-treming' of the series is horrible, but the game is still solid and a lot of fun." I've never really heard all that much about the Two Thrones either, but if that one's worth it then I'd want to play WW first just so I'm not totally confused. Thus, I put it to the Thumb community: Is WW at least worth the $15-$20 I could get it for now, or should I just be happy that SoT kicked so much ass and move on to something else? And what of The Two Thrones?

Thanks. For now, I'm off to watch the Colbert Report!

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With Warrior Within I think it's a question of how off-putting you find it. The more suspicious/shit you find the attitude, art direction, etc, especially in contrast to Sands of Time the less likely you are to enjoy the game. Like, if your favourite thing about Sands of Time was "platforming action" you will probably find something to like in Warrior Within. Creatively/artistically it is terrible. Beyond that though, it's still not a very good game (at the least it's not Sands of Time-quality), the level design for instance is pretty bad. Warrior Within isn't just Sands of Time painted black. The game clearly has a different mindset.

I don't know as much about Two Thrones but it seems a lot like Warrior Within painted brown. So the art direction is closer to Sands of Time but it still has WW's "hardcore fuck some shit up" attitude.

It depends mostly on why you want to play them. If you want to continue the story, definitely don't bother. Sands of Time is a stand-alone story written by Jordan Mechner that's awkwardly fitted into a trilogy (because trilogies are epic) written by two other guys who no one has ever heard of for good reasons. If you are just looking for a fun game I would still say don't bother actually. You might like Warrior Within but you definitely have to have some blinders on.

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Hmmm... unfortunate. For Badassery, I've got God of War or Ninja Gaiden, both of which are very well executed, to keep me happy. I guess I don't need to care about PoP then. And If I ever suddenly decide that I have to play them, I guess I can always eBay them several years down the line. Thanks.

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WW was indeed pretty crap, but I liked Two Thrones a lot. The story there is almost as good as SOT (tho perhaps not as interestingly executed); really binds the games together nicely. It almost (*almost*) justifies the rubbish that was WW, or at least seems to apologize for it ....

Gameplay-wise, the speedkill system (which lets you avoid a great deal of the combat with some platform-puzzling and rhythm minigames) is an excellent addition. While TT may be more fighty than SOT, it's not as fighty as WW; it's better balanced, with more of an emphasis on the platforming side. There are a couple of annoying spots, natch, but overall I'd say it concludes the trilogy on a good up-note.

You could prolly even skip WW. There are just a couple things you'd need to know, story-wise. I'd post them, but being a total newb here, I can't figure how you guys post spoilers, and I don't want to flub it.

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I'm sure everyone is aware of this, but two thrones does indeed look vaguely playable.

A bit paranoid are we?

You could prolly even skip WW. There are just a couple things you'd need to know, story-wise. I'd post them, but being a total newb here, I can't figure how you guys post spoilers, and I don't want to flub it.

Here's how it works: [ spoiler ] Important things [ /spoiler ], but without the spaces in the tags.

Also, welcome to the forums.

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I'm sure everyone is aware of this

Funny, I actually thought of that before posting ....

I tend to lurk more than anything, as I frequently have nothing worthwhile to add -- as this post no doubt proves.

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S'ok, not many of us often do, but we post anyway. Forums are a bit narcisistic that way. Also, I'm fairly sure I spelled that incorrectly, so don't bother telling me. Anyway, welcome to the world of "people who post." It's nice here. They'll even let you eat FOOD now if you want to. So much better than the rats and other creepy-crawlies that lurkers have to try to consume from their position of eternal hiding.

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Funny, I actually thought of that before posting ....

I tend to lurk more than anything, as I frequently have nothing worthwhile to add -- as this post no doubt proves.

Aww, come on man, your first post was pretty good you know. You even used proper grammar!

Forums are a bit narcisistic that way. Also, I'm fairly sure I spelled that incorrectly, so don't bother telling me.

You clod! It's narcissistic! You're first on the ban-list when I take over this place.

Really though, I'm just looking for excuses to post "clod".

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The general consensus on Two Thrones is that it is a step back towards the awesome, and worth your time to play... but I haven't beat Sands of Time yet so hey... :getmecoat

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The cover of Two Thrones is quite literally two Princes, an evil one that is dark and brooding, and a good one that is suppsed to resemble Prince in Sands of Time, merged together into one. So, I think it's pretty clear that the third game was an attempt to reconcile the Prince's newfound "I'm a badass that must appeal to 13 year olds" with the earlier "I appeal to hardcore gamers and those with taste" Prince.

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I was thinking something similar Lobo. Except I was thinking that it was quite a cheap way to appeal to fans of both games at once. You can almost see them in the board meeting:

"What do we do? How do we get the original fans and critics back, while still keeping the emo/nu-metal market? It's a disaster!"

"What... what if we do both and let them choose which version of the Prince they play? Um. You know. Like Black and White?"

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and then what ? if the recipe is successful who cares what the initial intentions were ?

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Thanks for the welcome guys.

Except I was thinking that it was quite a cheap way to appeal to fans of both games at once.

Tho I don't doubt this is at least in part true, also consider that they painted themselves into a corner in terms of story. They really couldn't just pretend that the last game didn't happen and make the prince's character the same as it was in SOT ... that would be cheap. Actually, that they managed to ressurrect the SOT prince through narrative was one of the things I liked about the story.

Gameplay-wise, you must admit the fighting in SOT was pretty crap, so keeping the improved fighting from WW makes sense. One of the things that made WW rubbish, imho, was that it *focused* on fighting; TT tunes back that emphasis, and in many places makes big fights the punishment for blowing a speedkill.

The other thing that made WW rubbish was the *attitude* that seeped from its every pore; from the prince's lame grunts and awkward cursing to the generic adolescent-jock-metal soundtrack. The overall tone of TT is different; it's not quite the soft-focus-fantasy that was SOT, but it's not out there in its backturned baseball hat and korn tee shouting 'look how effing hard I am' either.

(Slight TT story spoiler follows ....)

Finally, in TT there really isn't any choosing; the story's linear with a single outcome. At certain points, the Dark Prince takes over and provides a slight change in gameplay. Since DP's health bar steadily declines and is replenished by acquiring sand (via killing or breaking jars), his segments are really platform races where the object is to get through a series of traps to the reset point before your life runs out.

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The problem for me is that no matter how bad WW was, if I'm going to play TT I need to play it first. I have this compulsion for some reason. If I'm playing a continuation of a story, I can't let myself just come into it totally cold. Things like Zone of the Enders for example. I heard that the second one was amazing and the first one was merely ok with a really frustrating camera. I bought and played the first one mostly so that I could play the second one without being confused. I knew it wasn't as good a game, but I still beat it. Actually, I've developed quite a fondness for the whole ZOE series, so I really did enjoy the first one. Maybe that was a bad example but you get the idea. Similar thing with Kingdom Hearts. First one I've heard some good about, sequel I've heard is incredible and really want to play. I'm working my way through the original right now pretty much solely for the pleasure of its sequel. That in mind, lemme rephrase the question:

Is TT good enough to play through WW first?

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In my opinion, while WW did leave an awfully bad taste in my mouth, it was still more or less enjoyable to play through because of the puzzles that were still buried within. Yes, the "attitude" grated like hell on my nerves, and yes, I had stopped playing the game partway through until TT was announced, and looked like it was actually going to be good again, but once I had that reason to play it, I was able to grit my teeth through the terrible parts and find some of the good things that were in it. Believe it or not, there's actually some semblance of a decent story in there. It's just a little hard to see through the grit.

But down to the core question. Is TT good enough to play through WW first? Obviously, my answer is yes, since that's what got me to pick up WW again in the first place. So I guess the question from my viewpoint is "Was it worth it after you actually played TT?" And for that, my answer is a resounding yes. TT was definitely not as good as SOT, but in my opinion, it came very close. And as someone stated earlier in this thread, it did an honest job of trying to make it seem like there was actually a good reason for the direction WW took. It claims the reason the Prince was such an annoying freak is because he had had little sustenance, sleep, or human interaction for seven years, seeing as he was constantly on the run from a mystic and inescapable foe. While I don't really buy it, you can tell that whoever wrote the story for the third one was more or less of our mind when it came to the second one, and did his best to make it seem, at least, an acceptable evil. One thing some people seem to be misunderstanding, though, is the role of the Dark Prince. Everyone's writing him off as "the Prince from the second game," when that couldn't be further from the truth. The Dark Prince is polite, refined, and very witty, though brutal, and is, in my opinion, one of the most entertaining characters in the entire series. Finally, the Prince takes a sharp turn back towards where he was in the first game, character-wise, something the story explains away by finally being free to live again. The most interesting part of the character development for me was that TT put the SOT Prince in a new light for me, making me realize that he wasn't really all that much of a hero either.

All in all, I thought it was a great finale to the series, and nearly justified the existence of WW; at least as much as anything possibly could. Definitely worth finishing the series for, though.

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I'm going to play devil's advocate here and actually confess to enjoying WW. While the attitude bugged me, I think it was more because of the corny way it was excecuted, rather than from any objection to the attitude itself. I mean, in his place I'd be pretty pissed off too. The story of the game is actually fairly decent, and there are moments

particularly just after he kills the empress of time and realises he's the instrument of his own doom

that genuinely made you feel sorry for the guy.

The fighting is a huge improvement over the first one, and while I think the atmosphere in the first one (ok, so not *really* the first one, but that's just nitpicking) was much more to my liking, I really didn't think the second one deserved all the stick it got. All in all, I liked it. Granted, not as good as the first one, but still a game that beat most other action platformers - though perhaps not God of War (natch!)

Having said all that - I have had the Two Thrones for months now and only just started it :getmecoat

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While I don't really buy it, you can tell that whoever wrote the story for the third one was more or less of our mind when it came to the second one, and did his best to make it seem, at least, an acceptable evil.

That would be the same two guys who wrote the second one, so I don't think it was quite so much a case of "we have to redeem ourselves for WW!" as it was "this time let's try not to alienate people so much".

I was just thinking about this now... I agree that between WW and TT there was a bit of backpedalling with the writing. But I think that makes it weird in TT where Kaileena is supposed to be his true love (or whatever), and the WW-Prince is supposed to be his 'dark side' (or whatever), both of which are pretty dubious when you look back at WW. The Prince/Kaileena relationship in WW is fundamentally bizarre and there's no way the WW-Prince is the angrier, depressed version of the SOT-Prince -- he's a stupid, violent dick.

So either the writers just made things up to make writing TT easier or they think they accomplished things in WW that they didn't. Either way :fart: :fart:

also, hi, welcome to the forums, etc. :shifty: Sorry I ranted out loud at you for no reason.

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Is TT good enough to play through WW first?

Well I played through WW only because TT was announced. And I used god-mode-cheat all the way (gasp - something I never done before). I really just wanted to get the story highlights, and the edgy stuff did really get on my nerves... But is has some enjoyable gameplay down beneath the stupid stupid art and mood-direction... When I finished with WW I was so tired of the whole shebang that I couldn't make myself to play TT - I will someday, but right afterwards I just wished for the prince to bloody die with a thousand scissors in his eye.

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I just finished Sands of Time--on my wife's recommendation, no less--and thoroughly enjoyed it, although I didn't find it as pant-wettingly awesome as a lot of people do. She suggested I at least try the start of Warrior Within to see just how bad it is.

Wow. I was prepared for a shock and I was still astounded at how staggeringly dreadful the whole thing was. The took the weakest part of SoT, the fighting, and made the whole game about fighting. They replaced the witty, sarcastic dialogue of the first game with three samples:

"Hhhhurrrrrrnngggg"

"Gnnnnnnrrrrrruuuuhh"

and

"GAAAAAAAAAAHHH"

When the heavy guitar rock started, I just turned off the console and vowed never to play it again.

I watched my wife finish Two Thrones and it looked like a lot of fighting and a lot of climbing. The story was very good though.

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So I picked up Two Thrones from the Steam sale and started playing it. I haven't gotten very far yet, but first impression:

The overall direction is indeed better than Warrior Within, and turn back towards Sands of Time. However, I'm quite surprised to find that the game seems to not have aged well at all. Either there are technical glitches that appear on my PC or the controls just aren't that good -- mouselook especially, no matter which way I slide the mouse speed slider, it just feels wrong and jerky. The sound design seems awful and the voices sound average. I should play Sands of Time some to see if I have the same issue with that one now or if it's just TT.

From what I've played so far (just a couple of hours), I enjoyed the latest Prince of Persia (2008) a whole lot more. The movement was fluid and I didn't really find it bothersome that it sometimes felt automatic. The instant restore was also arguably better than what TT has: either

- similar instant restore, but between death and restart, there's

1) a boring animation

2) a Retry/Quit prompt

3) a load screen

I see the way Elika saves you as a huge improvement over that.

- same thing, but some way back and you'll have to complete that sequence you just completed again to possibly die again attempting the thing you failed at.

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So I picked up Two Thrones from the Steam sale and started playing it. I haven't gotten very far yet, but first impression:

The overall direction is indeed better than Warrior Within, and turn back towards Sands of Time. However, I'm quite surprised to find that the game seems to not have aged well at all. Either there are technical glitches that appear on my PC or the controls just aren't that good -- mouselook especially, no matter which way I slide the mouse speed slider, it just feels wrong and jerky. The sound design seems awful and the voices sound average. I should play Sands of Time some to see if I have the same issue with that one now or if it's just TT.

From what I've played so far (just a couple of hours), I enjoyed the latest Prince of Persia (2008) a whole lot more. The movement was fluid and I didn't really find it bothersome that it sometimes felt automatic. The instant restore was also arguably better than what TT has: either

- similar instant restore, but between death and restart, there's

1) a boring animation

2) a Retry/Quit prompt

3) a load screen

I see the way Elika saves you as a huge improvement over that.

- same thing, but some way back and you'll have to complete that sequence you just completed again to possibly die again attempting the thing you failed at.

Does it work with a 360 controller?

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