Roderick Posted March 29, 2006 I was playing Oblivion, well, actually every night after I finish working on all my projects, and all of a sudden I encountered someone who loudly exclaimed "goddamn" in a sentence. Admittedly, the situation (which I shan't spoil) was rather tense, but still... why the hell did the writers commit such an atrocious act of killing a setting? Let's get straight that I have no moral objection or anything to swearing. You won't catch me saying goddamn or any equivalent very often, but that's because I think it would lower myself. I'm not offended if anyone else says it. But for a fantasygame of such careful design to utter these curses? Such urban swearing might help add realism to something like GTA, but it totally doesn't fit in a medieval fantasy world. To what purpose it is then used is beyond me, but it's an atmosphere killer in my view. Shame that they thought it necessary to use such language. Oblivion is mature enough without it and only lowers its high standards with it. And again, I'm not saying that out of some moral defense, but out of an objective review of semiotic use of language. To use some nerdy slang. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manny_c44 Posted March 29, 2006 Just wait till you get the part where Septim says "I'm gonna ice those niggas". That line really ruined it for me. Seriously though, even though I haven't reached that part (I think- is it a side quest?) there are other instances that pull you out of universe as well, such as the times when one character has multiple generic voices for different lines. But I agree, they should - and largely do- keep the vernacular consistent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brkl Posted March 29, 2006 Whah? How exactly is "goddamn" urban swearing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oath Posted March 29, 2006 I honestly feel like cursing is at home in a world such as that of Oblivion. Well, rather that it should be. The Elder Scrolls is pretty standard high fantasy, and I really wouldn't mind if it was a bit more lifelike. People in the middle ages swore, not on the same level as today though, so if it's done with some amount of caution I feel that it can be included succesfully and smoothly. But I guess you could argue that since not much else really is on the same level of "realism" as cursing, it is slightly out of place. Still, I prefer it to a world where everything is all sunshine and rainbows. I mean, there is a disturbing lack of "real" problems in the world of Oblivion and that feels really off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted March 29, 2006 goddamn seems out of place. there are multiple gods in the world of Tamriel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oath Posted March 29, 2006 goddamn seems out of place.there are multiple gods in the world of Tamriel "Curse the Nine" perhaps then? "Fucking Akatosh, not again"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted March 29, 2006 I don't remember there being ANYTHING out of place in Morrowind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaff Posted March 29, 2006 Tthat's hardly a curse word is it? stop being prude ¬¬ it fits the setting fine also.... maybe if he had said "holy jesus" or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Posted March 29, 2006 Just be glad he didn't say godsdamned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted March 29, 2006 Tthat's hardly a curse word is it?stop being prude ¬¬ it fits the setting fine also.... maybe if he had said "holy jesus" or something. Yeah, agreed. I mean there are gods in Oblivion, you can damn them. Such urban swearing might help add realism to something like GTA, but it totally doesn't fit in a medieval fantasy world. Urban swearing? What? It's not like this is a magical fantasy fairy happy land or anything. The name of the game is Oblivion! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermes Posted March 29, 2006 hi ho - without ever having played the game or anything I completely agree with everyone who doesn't agree with Rodi. I'm sure you are right Rodi, but it touches on what really pisses me off about high fantasy-games, -litterature -whatever. It is that everybody feel it should be so bloody goddamn high-brow. So much thou and thee, eternal goodness, total evil, great heroes and really bad bad-guys etc. Its so goddamn unrealistic, which can be okay, but in this case it has just become a terrible and annoying cliché. What we really need is some low-brow-in-your-face-social-realism-high-fantasy (please not eXtreme). I think this is why Terry Pratchetts 'high' fantasy is so -ing great. I guess you're not the only one feeling ranty today Marek (might be something with the solar eclipse...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted March 29, 2006 if he had said "Gooood Daaaaaamn" like a comedy movie black man type guy then it would be shit though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrik Posted March 30, 2006 I hate to repeat everybody else, but yeah, "goddamn" really isn't swearing. At all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trithemius Posted March 30, 2006 Pedantry! Yes it is! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moosferatu Posted March 30, 2006 Yeah... that's actually the only type of swearing that I'd take offense to, and never use myself. The rest are purely socially constructed taboos. Of course, this could be considered purely a social construct as well. It all comes down to your point of view. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twmac Posted March 30, 2006 if he had said "Gooood Daaaaaamn" like a comedy movie black man type guy then it would be shit though. Agreed, the intonation used on the word would alter whether I thought it was badly used or not. Maybe it should be encouraged that developers come up with creative new swear words, like Fable's Chicken kicker title. You could call people turnip benders, halfling lovers (would that be pushing the idea of racial hatred?), or salt water bathers for example. I've always thought 'half-witted crumpet chaser' sounds pretty offensive. On a side note the much underrated film 'The prophecy' has a great scene where one character, resourected by an Angel after their sucide attempt, uses the words 'shit', fuck' etc. But then he says 'Damnit' annd the Angel chastises him for being rude. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Posted March 30, 2006 Maybe it should be encouraged that developers come up with creative new swear wordsFirst of all, nooooo! This is almost always cornier than the real thing. Secondly, TES already has a few neo-curses, like "N'wah" and "Swit", from Morrowind. This way is better. Anyway, :( please get over it Rodi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted March 30, 2006 First of all, nooooo! Yeah, I mean talk about an atmosphere killer. That's my least favourite thing about Battlestar Galactica, frak. I guess that's a different situation than this because of the FCC but still nothing pulls me out of that show like "She's a mother[WE CAN'T SAY THE REAL WORD]ing Cylon!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsps Posted March 30, 2006 Yeah, I agree with Yufster and twmac regarding the intonation. I was thinking the same thing. I assume that he doesn't go, "I say GODDAMN!" And while I'm not a linguist, I think that if characters actually spoke English as they did in the middle ages, it wouldn't be very easy to understand. And of course they used swear words. Hell, they invented some of them! Goddamn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miffy495 Posted March 30, 2006 As an atheist, there's really nothing that you can say that would offend me given the right context. The only time I'm uncomfortable with swearing is if it's racial/homophobic and the person could actually MEAN it. If you're in a group that's got a mix of everything and you drop a slur in joking, I don't have a problem with it, but if you're (to use a Calgary example) at the stampede, in a cowboy hat, talking about how those (WARNING! SLUR ALERT!!!) fags (/SLUR ALERT!) are ruining society, that could get to me. It's all about the context and intonation. As for the Elder Scrolls, I'm not really familiar with that universe, but if a jailkeeper or someone who's covered in shit and looks like he spent the morning wallowing in an outhouse drops the f-bomb a few times, I wouldn't be all that shocked or offended. If it's a high priest saying "goddamn," there may be an issue, but from what you've said it's kinda hard to tell what the problem is. Pray Rodi, what was the specific instance that you're talking about here? Aside from simply "tense" of course. Was it a situation where you or (as you've said you don't swear very often) a friend would say goddamn? By the way, your lack of swearing is admirable. It's been pretty ingrained in me, but I can always respect someone who still bothers to watch their language. Hmmm... looks like everyone's in a rant-y mood today! Good times all around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted March 30, 2006 Well, that's another thing right there; TES already had this vast arsenal of non-corny made-up swearwords like s'wit, fetcher and n'wah. I guess what did it in the goddamn case was that it got too close to reality and therefore broke the fourth wall. I'm all for not getting high-brow in fantasy, but TES already had an established way of doing things, and that DID include pedantic use of language. They are STILL doing it in Oblivion (only logical if they want to make a consistent world), and THAT's why 'realworld' profanities stuck out so much. Like I made abundantly clear in my first post, I am NOT a prude and I couldn't give a frick-on-a-stick if I'd encounter swearing in games or movies I like Sam Jackson just as much as the next guy. You bunch of nerfherders. [ADDED] Miffy; I think I would give out a rolling curse in a similar situation as well. After all someone hometown was just then err, utterly destroyed by demons from the gates of Oblivion. So yeah, in nice swearing would be in place there. HOWEVER, not in a fantasy-game that had up till then never indulged in such practices. The inconsistency, like I said, broke the fourth wall and took a little bit away from the immersion at that point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Posted March 30, 2006 Pedantry!Yes it is! Bwahahahahahahahahahaa Cor Blimey is swearing? That's genius! As for saying 'Goddamn' in Oblivion, it seems fine to me. Even though I don't see it as swearing (in the same way as fuck and cunt) there is no reason why the characters in this world shouldn't swear and saying 'Goddamn' is pretty mild. It doesn't seem out of place to me, other than the eralier comments about there being multiple gods. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted March 30, 2006 Well, that's another thing right there; TES already had this vast arsenal of non-corny made-up swearwords like s'wit, fetcher and n'wah. I guess what did it in the goddamn case was that it got too close to reality and therefore broke the fourth wall. Okay, what I don't get is how this apparently high-minded fantasy world can't come up with 'goddamn' on their own. They have 'god', they have 'damn', they can't put the two things together? What I'm saying is goddamn isn't particularly convoluted as far as etymology goes, they're probably using words which are less plausible, and besides the language in Oblivion is not substantially different from English anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJW Posted March 30, 2006 Okay, what I don't get is how this apparently high-minded fantasy world can't come up with 'goddamn' on their own. They have 'god', they have 'damn', they can't put the two things together?What I'm saying is goddamn isn't particularly convoluted as far as etymology goes, they're probably using words which are less plausible, and besides the language in Oblivion is not substantially different from English anyway. He just said - it's the consistency. Up to now they have avoided it, now they change their mind. It's not really about the swearing. It could have been if they suddenly changed the way they pronounced the name of the world, or the colour of orc skin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Posted March 30, 2006 He just said - it's the consistency. Up to now they have avoided it, now they change their mind. It's not really about the swearing. It could have been if they suddenly changed the way they pronounced the name of the world, or the colour of orc skin. Okay, sure, but just because they haven't said it before doesn't mean it was because it wasn't allowed. Unless they've actively, consciously avoided saying goddamn because it was against some Elder Scrolls rule, I don't think your example holds up. What you're talking about is blatant contradiction, and when did they establish unequivocally that they don't say goddamn? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites