Jayel

BUY games? what are you, stupid?

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I've never met a person who PAYS for games. Most of my friends are avid gamers but they refuse to pay and give excuses like "I'm too poor" although they're in much better financial condition than I, and even have cars.

my last roommate said "BUY games? what are you, stupid?" which pisses me off, me wanting to be a game developer and all.

they must die. there is no other way.

ps

it's very hard to type with one hand.

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As someone who spends far too much on games, I sometimes toy with the idea of downloading something. But then I remember that it's illegal, and it hurts developers. I don't steal from developers, so I don't download games illegally, and I hope that, should I ever move into commerical publishing myself (something of a pipe dream), others will extend the same courtesy to me.

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As someone who spends far too much on games, I sometimes toy with the idea of downloading something. But then I remember that it's illegal, and it hurts developers. I don't steal from developers, so I don't download games illegally, and I hope that, should I ever move into commerical publishing myself (something of a pipe dream), others will extend the same courtesy to me.
I'm quite selective in what I play nowadays, so I'm of the opinion that if something is worth playing, it's worth paying for. I don't have any moral objection to things like abandonware though, provided a game is genuinely difficult-to-impossible to obtain legally. I'm very appreciative of the great work people on certain 'reputable' abandonware sites do to make hard-to-find classics available to all, and it's a service I'd gladly pay for too - if it wasn't a contradiction in terms.

Full disclosure though - I used to pirate Amiga games (and some PC games :shifty:) all the time! However, without the sly half-inching of Monkey Island 1, LucasArts wouldn't have had the pleasure of me lining their pockets by buying every single one of their subsequent adventures (bastards). Similarly for Wing Commander, not that it did Origin any good (EA: bastards). So, there you go, a heart-wrenching story of a reformed criminal for you all.

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I have a friend who has probably hundreds of CDs full of warez he has downloaded from the net. He rarely plays the games or uses the programs, he just wants to have a warez collection. "I never know if I happen to need 3D Studio Max one day!" he says.

It's just pointless. I download abandonware, and when I have the money I buy the game (if it is on sale).

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I download most of the game I play (unless it's from a developers I know can't do wrong, like Bioware or Rockstar). If I played the game and enjoyed it, I'll buy the full game. Recently I did this with Beyond Good and Evil, which I didn't think I'd enjoy but ended up loving. I also did it with Deus Ex: Invisible War, which was better than I'd been lead to expect.

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As of late I have forgotten that I have family in Warezland where software is priced per CD, where 2 CDs of 3DMax cost as much as two CDs of clipart, where being a pirate is as normal as being a housewife...

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The only games I download are games that cannot be bought any more... and I seriously doubt these games are ever going to get re-released: Dark Seed, Blood Net, D/Generation, Cruise For A Corpse, Prince of Persia. If these games ever were re-released (or, even better, released for my lovely GBA) I'd surely buy them. But I'm pretty sure it would only be me :)

I don't download newer games because I can't be bothered waiting and I don't want some crappy hacked beta crashing my system (which probably wouldn't happen, but you never know :)).

Question: Are games are stupidly overpriced?

Titanic cost $200,000,000 to make, but I can buy it on DVD for $24.95 or VHS for $12.95.

I'm sure every big "pop" CD costs millions in advertising - (Britney promoting her ass off, and endless TV adverts, posters, billboards, magazine adverts the world over etc, not to mention the cost of actually recording the thing - studio, producer, mixer, sound engineer, musicians, writers, backing singers)

Yet Britney's latest "opus" is available on CD for $13.49 and $14.99 on DVD.

Doom 3 I'm sure cost a fraction of $2 billion but could have broached the million dollar mark (not sure) to make and I have to buy it for $54.95.

(All prices from Amazon.com)

Discuss.

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Some of the AG forumites among you might remember my vigorous tirades against piracy. I firmly believe in supporting developers you appreciate, and if you don't want to buy a game, don't play it. Games are not a right by any means, and despite what some of us might like to believe they are not essential for life or happiness. I buy VERY few games, because I don't have tons of money to spend on them, but I tend to buy games I'm pretty sure about, and it works out well.

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The trouble with comparing movies to games (or music) is that movies have a two-step release system where games, music, etc. only have one.

Movies rely on box office income to recoup the bulk of their production costs, and then home video sales are their way of ensuring that the product continues to make money, albeit less, well after the box office run has ended. Games and Music, on the other hand, rely only on retail sales for their income, so they have to be priced higher to accomodate for that.

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It presumably has a lot to do with the lifespan of your average game, too. Games must be on the shelves at full price for a year at most, and during that time they have to sell like the proverbial hot cakes to make a profit - hence the industry's obsession with first-week chart positions. After that, either they become extremely cheap (relatively) budget titles or they disappear entirely. Although modern music falls out of favour pretty fast too, there will always be a steady trickle of income in the form of royalty payments for radio play or inclusion on those crappy 'Now that's what I call music 5000' compilations. The same goes doubly for movies, which manage to be screened on TV over and over even if they're terrible, in addition to being available on video and DVD until the end of time.

So yeah, that's what tabacco said except with more words.

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To be perfectly honest, I actually do download games like Monkey Island or DOTT. I owned all of those games when they were originally released, but over time the Disks gave up. If Monkey Island was available in stores again, though, I would buy it. Because I would rather own it than download it.

I wouldn't download new games, or games that are still being sold. I didn't download Grim Fandango even though people gave me links for places to download it. I spit on those people! Like this; spit! Spit! Spit! If I don't have money to buy a new game that I really want, I'll ask for extra hours at work.

On the other hand, I did download 3D studio max with the intention of learning it (but I switched to Blender anyway). I think the example of 3D studio max is a little different though. It's a product that's not really available to home users. I think in that case, even though it's still illegal to download it, it's kind of different as I only wanted to learn how to use it. If I'd have been using it for commercial purposes, that would have been different, though.

Gah, I still remember there was a thread on the AGS forums about the new Broken Sword, just before it was released, and one of the first responses to the thread was something like, "I can't wait to download it!"

In conclusion, I buy my games. Except really, really old ones that you can't buy any more.

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On the other hand, I did download 3D studio max with the intention of learning it (but I switched to Blender anyway). I think the example of 3D studio max is a little different though. It's a product that's not really available to home users. I think in that case, even though it's still illegal to download it, it's kind of different as I only wanted to learn how to use it. If I'd have been using it for commercial purposes, that would have been different, though.

Besides which, even if the pricing is in reach of home users, sales of business-style or productivity software (eg. Microsoft Office or AutoCAD) will be made mainly to corporations who HAVE to buy legal versions or get in lots of trouble. It's not as though widespread pirating of stuff like that is going to cut off their main revenue stream. Which is why pirating games is bad, because they don't have staple buyer type people like Microsoft do.

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I'm in the fortunate position of having a job as network admin at quite a big school (College) where we run a shitload of different applications. The licenses for these applications cover home use for employees, so I can legally burn a copy for home use. Some of the goodies include Photoshop 7, various MacroMedia shit and LightWave 3D 7.5. I would never be able to buy this myself, and I can't live without some of these apps anymore.

--Erwin

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It seems to me that a person has to be unbelievably and unrealistically idealistic to go buy a game if he or she already has the whole thing on his hard drive, unless there's something besides a good conscience to be gained (online play, etc.)...

I mean, you already have the game. Can a human have so big a heart as to actually pay tens of US-American dollars, hundreds of Norwegian kroners, thousands of Belgian francs, ten thousands of Chilean pesos, hundres of thousands of Colombian pesos or millions of Ecuadorean sucres, only to gain a plastic box and a flimsy advertising leaflet for another game?

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Well, I think there are a lot of hypocrites too. I have quite a collection of original boxed and jewelcased games, but I can't and won't pretend I've never downloaded something illegally. :finger:

--Erwin

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Games and Music, on the other hand, rely only on retail sales for their income, so they have to be priced higher to accomodate for that.

Music is the cheapest of all, not priced higher.

I'm sure every big "pop" CD costs millions in advertising - (Britney promoting her ass off, and endless TV adverts, posters, billboards, magazine adverts the world over etc, not to mention the cost of actually recording the thing - studio, producer, mixer, sound engineer, musicians, writers, backing singers)

Yet Britney's latest "opus" is available on CD for $13.49 and $14.99 on DVD.

Doom 3 I'm sure cost a fraction of $2 billion but could have broached the million dollar mark (not sure) to make and I have to buy it for $54.95.

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I mean, you already have the game. Can a human have so big a heart as to actually pay tens of US-American dollars, hundreds of Norwegian kroners, thousands of Belgian francs, ten thousands of Chilean pesos, hundres of thousands of Colombian pesos or millions of Ecuadorean sucres, only to gain a plastic box and a flimsy advertising leaflet for another game?

Yes, I often buy games I've already downloaded and played.

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i use a combination of total warez, real life purchasing and blagging free copies from companies i tested for or review for. This combination seems to work quite well and i end up with most of the games i want to play before i turn to warez somehow.

The problem with downloading gmes and then buying a copy if they are good is that most of the time games arent *that* good... certainly not worth £40.

I tend to buy a pc game if its REALLY good or i happen to have money at the time.. i mostly save my money for import console games which are more of a pain in the ass to warez and are also cooler boxed somehow.

The last pc game i downloaded was: Dungeon Siege: Ledgends of Arana

The last pc game i paid for was: Planetside + Core Combat

The last Console game i downloaded was.... erm.. ikaruga Dreamcast? aaages ago

the last console game i bought was Mario Golf import! woooo heh.

The warez scene is a dodgy subject for some it seems... sometimes to forget the guilt, I remind myself that I work in the industry, and spend 7.5 hours a day making it a better place.. so i am exempt from the criminal aspect of downloading games.. heh. It works quite well in my head.

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The biggest problem with buying things I think is that the movies/games you buy in some ways are inferior to the pirated versions. In movies there are the region coding disabling you to play the movie anywhere you like or importing from other parts of the world. With games it's the copy protection that pose much more trouble for those who buy the games than those who pirate it.

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With games it's the copy protection that pose much more trouble for those who buy the games than those who pirate it.

That is just wrong. Well of course, the no-cd crack is usually included with the pirated ISOs, so if you want to use no-cd on a legal version you have to find it separately. But if you need to install patches with an illegal version, you have to wait for the patched .exe to be cracked as well.

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Of course you can crack your legal copy, but then you break your license and you are as much an illegal user of the software as the pirate.

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Well, then one can say that since the publisher insists on making me a criminal just for making the game I bought playable (which isn't overstating it, since changing disks to play is a classic from the early 90s, and lots of times the copy protection reduces performance or even crashes the game), I might as well become a criminal for free...

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Of course you can crack your legal copy, but then you break your license and you are as much an illegal user of the software as the pirate.

I'm not so sure on that. I can't bother to check though.

Anyway, you are allowed to make one backup copy of any software, music album or whatever, regardless what the EULA says. And I can't see something that enables you ta actually use that backup copy as being illegal.

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Well, then one can say that since the publisher insists on making me a criminal just for making the game I bought playable (which isn't overstating it, since changing disks to play is a classic from the early 90s, and lots of times the copy protection reduces performance or even crashes the game), I might as well become a criminal for free...

Or you could just acknowledge that it's semantics, and that cracking a game you paid for isn't actually immoral even if it's technically illegal. Ragnar might be correct in terms of specific laws, but the reason I pay for games is more than anything because I feel it's right to do, not because I can't find legal loopholes.

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