Why isn't Psychonauts selling well?

[MrHoatzin]

They should've put the TV ads in the late-night Comedy Central and Cartoon Networl lineups. They should've sent a copy to Jon Stewart. They didn't. They advertized on the fucking MTV.

[netmonkey]

You can suggest your ideas to [email protected], btw...

[Jake]

In my opinion, despite the amount of money they spent on marketing, Majesco did a really terrible job of marketing Psychonauts. Their ad campaign was entirely focused on "the game has a crazy comedy story and is by Tim Schafer," which means absolutely nothing to anyone except for the people who already knew that and were buying it anyway. Why didn't the ads focus on the fact that you could set fire to everything, see through the eyes of your enemies, and enter other characters minds while doing extreme acrobatic stunts? That's how all other games are marketed because that's what gamers look for. "What is the newest game out that lets me be a ridiculous badass?" "Clearly not Psychonauts. Apparently it's a crazy looking comedy story from Tim Schafer, whatever that is."

[nsps]

Hmm... of those of us here who live in North America, I wonder exactly how much a percentage of PC buyers we make up (I've got my copy!) ...

I'd imagine we make up at least five percent. I own a PC copy too (even though I can't play it ).

[Udvarnoky]

But considering a lot of us pre-ordered ours or purchased it online, we wouldn't be part of that number, would we?

[Jaero]

Though I'm sure there's no comparison in numbers, Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time didn't sell spectacularly either. Some of the reviews said it may have started more of a renaissance if it had, rather than spawning some more woeful knock-offs like Warrior Within. This is the case with a lot of other games of such quality - what they all have in common is their quality. They're so far above the status quo because publishers, designers, and marketers have been bombarding gamers with titles that frankly insult their intelligence for so long. I dunno if that ilk is ready for a game that relaly stimulates their intellect.

Granted, The Sands of Time didn't really do that either, but the example was to compare the overall quality.

I'm sure there's more to it, but whenever I try to think hard on the subject, I get too depressed about this state of things that I give up and go play something mindless like San Andreas, go figure.

[Marek]

I get the impression that Sands of Time not selling is partly a myth. I think it sold poorly over Christmas so everyone thought it wasn't selling well. But a few months later it was at 2,000,000. That's a very good number.

[Mad Jack]

Good theories, but I have one that I haven’t heard yet and I am going to throw it at you all. But first I want dissuade you all from think Psychonauts wasn’t marketed well. In order for TV advertising to work at least 6 million dollars has to be spent or it is wasted, usually ten is about average. So Majesco thought by spending at least 6 million (I have no idea what they spent, but I assume it is at least the minimum) they thought they were going to earn their money back. So they did give it a fair shot of getting to the main stream. I think the games failure to sell well isn’t Majesco’s problem. I think it is with the basic game concept itself.

Now before anyone misinterprets me and say I am bashing the idea for the game, let me just tell you I am not. I like the idea a lot. It is fresh, innovative and stands out from the crowd of tough guy killer games, and I am very glad it was made. I want to see more games like this. So that is why I am concerned it isn’t selling well.

So I think the problem that plagues this game, and to certain degree Grim Fandango, is that the basic idea behind it is too odd for the main stream game buying public. The majority of the game buying public doesn’t get it, and because they don’t easily understand the basic premise, they don’t buy it, no matter how many commercials they see or adds they see in magazines or articles giving the game awards.

Publishers, and movie companies, have filter they use to determine in a simplistic way, wheterher or not they think a game or movie will be easily understandable to the majority of the consumers they are trying to reach, it’s called the one line pitch. Lets try it for Tims’ games.

Farcical Pirates of the Caribbean. Monkey Island. Easy- Everyone knows pirates and a lot of people have ridden that ride, so it is easy to get. Pirates are fun and exciting and are set in the beautiful Caribbean.

Back to the Future meets Revenge of the Nerds. Day of the Tentacle. It is about three geeky teenagers in a time travel comedy adventure. Again pretty easy idea to consume.

Mad Max meets Easy Rider. Full Throttle. Biker gang mayhem set in the American south west thirty some odd years in the future. Again very easy for the main stream game buyer to get.

So here is where we run into some trouble.

Film Noir meets Dias De Los Muertos. Grim Fandango. Film Noir is cool and so is Day of the Dead, but film noir is not popular right now and most gamers I am sure have never even heard of Day of the Dead (well they have heard of the movie but not the Mexican holiday), it is too obscure. This was hard for most people to easily consume.

And now, this is really why I think Psychonauts isn’t selling- How do you describe Psychonauts in a simplistic sentence? I’ll try.

Scanners meets Meatballs. Or Psychic powered kids go to government sponsored summer camp to become psychic spies. I don’t think the required 700,000 gamer buyers that need to buy this game to make it profitable, are going to get that premise. And they don’t seem to be buying the game, if these numbers hold out. It is too original for those people- too hard to consume I think.

So I think the lesson here is if you plan to make a game about a subject matter that is kind of on the fringe or somewhat obscure, adjust your budget accordingly. Or if you want to make game that sells 700,000 units or across all SKUs, adjust your idea accordingly to match the number of games buyers you need. In other word if you want to spend 10 million on a game, have an idea that 700,000 people will want to buy. With Monkey Island, Full Throttle and Day of the Tentacle he did. I think with his last two games he didn’t.

Tim can clearly make a great game and have it sell well. I just simply think the last two games were based on subject matters that a lot of people liked, but not enough people liked the idea to justify the budget.

Anyway, that is my theory. What do you think?

[Mad Jack]

PRINCE PERSIA: SANDS OF TIME: 647,562 units sold on PS2, making about $23,660,140. The Xbox versions sold 400,980 units and made $15,042,320 dollars. Making a grand total of about 38 million dollars across both SKUs, and selling through 1,048,52 units.

[JoeX111]

PRINCE PERSIA: SANDS OF TIME: 647,562 units sold on PS2, making about $23,660,140. The Xbox versions sold 400,980 units and made $15,042,320 dollars. Making a grand total of about 38 million dollars across both SKUs, and selling through 1,048,52 units.

But didn't most of the copies only sell because they were later bundled with Splinter Cell?

[jp-30]

OH MY GOD it has, why doesn't anyone listen to me?

Hmm. GP Store has it for 12 July, not 12 June. Have you actually purchased it in NZ?

Looks like PC version only (to be) released in NZ at this stage. And I've never seen it at retail (Electronic Boutique, Central Park, Noel Leeminds, Dick Smith...) making me thing either Gamesman is lying or they imported it.

How very odd.

[MrHoatzin]

Publishers, and movie companies, have filter they use to determine in a simplistic way, wheterher or not they think a game or movie will be easily understandable to the majority of the consumers they are trying to reach, it’s called the one line pitch. Lets try it for Tims’ games.

Fear and Loathing in the Mushroom Kingdom.

[Duncan]

Hmm. GP Store has it for 12 July, not 12 June. Have you actually purchased it in NZ?

Looks like PC version only (to be) released in NZ at this stage. And I've never seen it at retail (Electronic Boutique, Central Park, Noel Leeminds, Dick Smith...) making me thing either Gamesman is lying or they imported it.

How very odd.

Yeah, I'm not denying it's incredibly odd, but I actually did buy my copy from Gamesman about a month ago. I guess they must have imported it, though I have no idea if that's true.

[Mad Jack]

I have seen PC copies of Psychonauts in the US on the shelves at Best Buy. So the PC version is here in the USA.

Also those Prince of Persia numbers were USA only, so I think you could consider Prince of Persia: Sand of Time a successful game. If it weren't I don't think there would have been a sequel.

But did you notice how they tried to make PoP; Warrior Within more serious, dark and more Goth? I think that was in response to a survey they must have taken that said most people thought it looked too much like a kids game. So they wanted to hit the main stream more and darkened it up and it went from a T rating to an M rating too. I don't think it helped. It sold only 587,000 units on Xbox and PS2 in the US versus 1,047,562 on both platforms for Sands of Time- the more ‘kiddie’ version. So they tried to go more main stream, and it sold twice as less!

Actually, this proves my point. A game about a middle eastern hero is going to sell 1 million units, period, and no matter how you try and dress it up, the basic idea with new dark Batmanesque styling its is still the same basic concept- nothing has really changed- except now you can’t sell the game to 17 years old and under (dumb move). And in this case it backfired.

I really think you basic concept limits the success of your game. If it is popular concept and you make a great game based on it, it will be a mega hit. If it is not a popular concept and it is a great game it will not be a hit.

[manny_c44]

Most games that don't have a strong franchise or a movie tie in do poorly, not just Tim Schafer games, until we have actual sales data (1,000 PC units sold sounds impossible) we can't compare Tim's game to the other 'original' games out there and therefore can't draw conclusions.

And, in my opinion, the psychic summer camp idea isn't particularly difficult to understand (its nowhere close to Grim in mind-blowery), and the entire game's premise and style seems to fit in well with the new wave of cartoon (Spongebob etc.), if anything the setting and design is complimentary to those TV trends and would make it a stronger seller.

[Mad Jack]

Fear and Loathing in the Mushroom Kingdom.

What does that mean? It sounds like you dislike that method. I agree, it doesn't always work or ALL movies coming out of Hollywood would be hits. There are a lot of factors that go into the succes of movies and games. You get any number of those factors wrong, even though got all the others right, you may still have a flop. I just argue that Pyschonauts got everyhting right, except for basing the game on a concept that will be popular among the mainstream. My theory is that is why it isn't selling as well as we think it should.

[General Fuzzy McBitty]

Yes. It is a good point that they advertised it soley on Tim's name, and most of the people who know who Tim is were already buying it.

[manny_c44]

So they wanted to hit the main stream more and darkened it up and it went from a T rating to an M rating too. I don't think it helped. It sold only 587,000 units on Xbox and PS2 in the US versus 1,047,562 on both platforms for Sands of Time- the more ‘kiddie’ version. So they tried to go more main stream, and it sold twice as less!...and in this case it backfired.

Maybe you don't understand. PoP sold so much because it was bundled with everything under the sun and prices were slashed on all fronts. They didn't sell close to what they were expecting, so they decided to latch on the first game onto a bunch of other big-selling hardware and software, hoping the install base would grow and be open to a sequel.

[Udvarnoky]

You know, we can discuss these over-the-top theories all day, but the truth is that the lack of explosions on the box art was the game's undoing.

[Mad Jack]

Most games that don't have a strong franchise or a movie tie in do poorly, not just Tim Schafer games, until we have actual sales data (1,000 PC units sold sounds impossible)

Those numbers are for just PART of ONE month in ONE, albiet rather big, country.

More PC data should be out soon on it, and I am sure they will be much higher. But low numbers on PC games is typical and actually not a bad thing because making PC games in some ways is a bit cheaper because Sony and MS don't intefere and they don't take a cut and the publisher doesn't have to buy the specific media discs from Sony and Microsoft or Nintendo.

But then again Psychonauts is a pltformer and the PC is not a good machine for platform games, nor are PC a good market. So it wouln't surprise me is the wildy succesfuly Sly Copper sold badly on PC.

[lailoken]

Fear and Loathing in the Mushroom Kingdom.

I'd say that is spot on!

[MrHoatzin]

What does that mean?

+

[Mad Jack]

Maybe you don't understand. PoP sold so much because it was bundled with everything under the sun and prices were slashed on all fronts. They didn't sell close to what they were expecting, so they decided to latch on the first game onto a bunch of other big-selling hardware and software, hoping the install base would grow and be open to a sequel.

It doesn't matter if it was bundled or not. The first game made 38 million dollars in the US. But the second one only did 18 million in the US. 38 million, budled or not is a succesful game- UNLESS they spent 38 million dollars on it, of course. But it isn't a wildy succesful like they thought is was going to be. So that is why they tried to make the second one more appealing to the main stream game consumer, and it failed. Also the change in rating hurt them, clearly. Bad move all around.

Lets just point out the obviuos, middle eastern heroes aren't going to sell all that well anyway in the current political atmopshere. Games are wish fullfillmnet. My guess is more peopel WISH to be Private Ryan or Rambo right now , than they wish to be middle eastern prince. So my point is the basic concpet hurt this game, even though it is great game, got good reviews AND good marketign and PR. None of that can overcome a concpet that isn't popular. Thsi is the same problem Psychonauts has I belive.

[Mad Jack]

You know, we can discuss these over-the-top theories all day, but the truth is that the lack of explosions on the box art was the game's undoing.

You are right and wrong. Peole do want to blow sh!t up. It is a popular wish that needs fullfilling. But on the other hand Sims and Roller Coaster Tycoon were mega hits and they don't blow anything up (Though I think you can crash and kill peopel riding on the coatser if you designed it badly, but that isn't the reason people buy that game). Same with all those Pokemon games and Tony Hawk. All mega hits where one doesn't blow sh!t up.

[Oath]

I'm too lazy to check for stats myself, but how does Psychonauts hold up to other platform games that are not part of a franchise or just the first game in a series? We've seen the statistics you posted on PoP (by the way, I miss the GameCube-numbers on that) but that was already part of an existing franchise, even if it had been left unused for some time.

My point is really just that a platformer, especially one like Psychonauts, is going to build a fan-base as it goes along - thus needing some time. I'm probably wrong though, as I'm really just guessing. I'll go weep for Double Fine instead, poor guys...

(I'm in Sweden and we're still far, far away from any psychonautic love. It makes me sad inside)