Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Roderick

Yes or No?

Recommended Posts

Anyone any particular opinions on whether to vote yes or no at the Dutch referendum for a unified European civil law June 1st? Hell knows there's ferocious campaigning here at the moment, and most of them are trying to strike fear into the public and are therefore instantly unsympathetic.

Is this topic entirely misplaced? Does anyone care?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

vote no.

I haven't looked into to it much, but you could be voting for software patents, or paving the way a bit more. Along with lots of other pointless crap. Human rights issues are not part of the discussion. All countries should uphold them anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm quite pro-EU, but at the moment I'm really not sure about this. One thing I have to say, though: A lot of people here are voting no because they don't like the current (local!) government, which is of course entirely irrelevant to this matter. I think that's a shame.

--Erwin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest malefactors in the referendum have been the government, who has turned many people off with obviously manipulative pro-propaganda, and the bashing our image of 'Europe' got when we got screwed with the Euro and all of a sudden everyone took financial advantage of us. Those two things have caused a lot of cynicism and unrest among the people, who in turn want nothing to do with Europe anymore.

Because of these two reasons I myself was thinking about voting no as well. But only shortly ago I realized that if there wouldn't have been all this surrounding flimflam, I'd have voted yes without hesitation, because I've always been very internationally minded. That is when I decided I'd vote yes. Rather than voting no because I'm afraid of a European superstate or a European president, I'm saying yes because I want to strive for an idealistic vision of the future. However wrong it could go, we'd be fools to abandon all ideals. I'd rather take the chance to see beautiful things happen than to regret a standstill of progress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing I have to say, though: A lot of people here are voting no because they don't like the current (local!) government, which is of course entirely irrelevant to this matter. I think that's a shame.

--Erwin

Same in France where the debate went from a intelligent one based on what is in the text to a battle of little phrases... anyway, I don't really know what I'm going to vote.

On one hand, I'd like to vote No because I think this text isn't a constitution, it's a law text and I - as a citizen - can't vote for or against a text of law whose consequences and implication are out of my understanding. Also there is some economical orientation that doesn't please me...

On the other hand, voting No - and if the No wins -would stop the processus and put France out of the European decision loop, which is quite a shame.

Anyway, what's surprising here is that you have the National Front and part of the social party sponsorising the No and the other part of the social party and the ultra liberal syndicate MEDEF trying to convince people to vote yes.

*sight*

I wish we people would only vote on the first part of the text which interest me and state the general human and ethical orientation the EU would take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me there can only be one decision. As a no vote would effectively put a stop to European integration. I think it is stupid to put up a referendum like this at all. It's not like we (the people) get to vote on matters of law within a national context and there are many many reasons why this is the case which I don't really feel like listing here. The referendum should have been on a more basic level that all people can easily understand. If the US could do it in 1789 you would think the Olde Worlde could do it in 2005...

So please Vote YES, Rodi is right, progress in this case must be maintained at ALMOST any cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So... The French have spoken, and they say 'non' to the European Constitution.

I'm pretty sure I'd voted 'yes' next Wednesday, but now I'll stay home. I wonder what they're going to do about this, and if they'll ask us to vote again in a year or so.

--Erwin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoa. haven't watched the news lately... So they actually said no (I was kind of expecting them to vote yes even though blabla)... It'll be interesting to see what happens now.

We're not going to have a vote about it anyway, our parliament is going to decide 'yes'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cant help but feel a bit said, but you can't turn the tide. I'm still going to vote anyway, why would I all of a sudden not vote? If anything it's still a matter of leting your voices be heard. Now we can't possibly take the reslts of our referendum seriously. Maybe the results of all votes should have been kept secret until all countries had voted.

Anyay, I think there will still be a time when Europe grows closer. Now we just have t wait a bit longer, unfortunately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really have strong opinion about the european constitution. Mainly because I haven't read it. But I kind of agree with this guy:

The Best Reason To Throw Out A European Constitution

I can think of no better reasond than because these arrogant idiots never came up with a plan B. You're relying on the French to say yes? And betting a Continent's future on the results? Even though you know French citiizens are swaying the other way. That is beyond stupid.

Frankly i think the constitution was always a dog's breakfast. Over 400 pages of bureaucratic mumbo jumbo... and we're supposed to buy into that? Makes me think of Corba...

The bloody nose to the eurocrats will do us all a favour. If we are going to be competitive internationally, we must be competitive internally. We need a constitution that's more about small pieces, loosely joined. Something that will allow national remixing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it levelheaded? I don't really know (I'm not that great a politician). It sounds like a reasonable analysis. The writer certainly seems to probe the Dutch feelings well. What say you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't really have strong opinion about the european constitution. Mainly because I haven't read it. But I kind of agree with this guy:

Actually, I changed my mind. Not having a plan B is reasonable...

For constantly developing a plan B you'd have to possibly waste double the resources. The EU is already bureaucratic enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope EU can rethink itself and go back to the right path. I hope the referenda were not detrimental.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hope EU can rethink itself and go back to the right path. I hope the referenda were not detrimental.

Well, it already did *some* damage. France and England are fighting over an agriculture subsidy, Italy and The Netherlands are moaning about their financial contribution, and there's uncertainty as how to proceed. And the Euro devaluated a little, although that's not necessarily a bad thing.

--Erwin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, it already did *some* damage. France and England are fighting over an agriculture subsidy, Italy and The Netherlands are moaning about their financial contribution, and there's uncertainty as how to proceed. And the Euro devaluated a little, although that's not necessarily a bad thing.

--Erwin

Well, France and England argue periodically anyway, though Chirac has chosen to bring it up now so that he can score some sort of political victory. And the Euro seems to be doing a good job of devaluing itself anyway :).

But, yes, the votes do seem to have pushed a few things forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×