Quote of the Moment - Doug Lowenstein

[Jake]

Why aren't the music and film industries criticized for sequels? Why is there a different standard for games?

What bullshit. Did nobody criticize Speed 2 Cruise Control? Shanghai Knights? The Two Jakes? ... and what is a music sequel? The only one single music "sequel" I can think of is Meat Loaf's Bat Out Of Hell 2: Back Into Hell, which fortunately is a hilarious example. This guy seems like he's really stretching to come up with an argument. Sequels in all mediums (even nonexistent ones like music, I guess) are going to be crap unless you're really sly about it, and everybody knows that. I don't know why he wants an exception made for the games industry?

.... And, lately it seems the public attitude towards game sequels has been a positive one anyway. If your first game is unique and popular, but rough around the edges, I for one always hope that your publisher will give you the funding to make a sequel, to give you a chance to weed out the crap and beef up and polish the good. Armed & Dangerous could have an amazing sequel with that attitude. Prince of Persia looks to be getting one.

Marek or whoever posted that QOTM, where's the original source so I can see that quote in context?

[Marek]

The summary of the keynote was available at the E3 press room, but will also be released on theesa.com (the page it links to now in the recent news section is blank).

If I remember correctly, Doug Lowenstein did admit that there's a lack of innovation in the games industry. He thinks the shifting gamer demographic will fix this problem by itself as more mature gamers will demand new experiences. I'm not sure if things are just going to fix itself without some major industry reform or crisis, but Lowenstein probably wanted to give his speech a positive note -- it being the 10th E3 and all.

[MrHoatzin]

Well, an example of music sequels: every song Ricky Martin ever made was a sequel of his previous song. Same shit all over again with the exact same butt throbs, only the words are slightly different.

[Jake]

Well, an example of music sequels: every song Ricky Martin ever made was a sequel of his previous song. Same shit all over again with the exact same butt throbs, only the words are slightly different.

Ah maybe he was talking about that. Argh what was he talking about he's so wrong. Why does this bother me? Because I'm trying to create content for the forum? Erm, Because this is the Internet? I dunno. Its foolish. The exact same type of person who bitches that Rogue Squadron and Rogue Leader are identical rehashes would be the kind complaining about how Ricky Martin songs are all sound-a-likes. Wheras the person who buys lots of Ricky Martin (or other cookie cuttery thing) without complaining might also be inclined to buy both Rogue Squadron GC games, or Maddens 1999-2005, or see Shanghai Knights and be entertained. I guess what I mean is, he has no argument.

[ThunderPeel2001]

What bullshit. Did nobody criticize Speed 2 Cruise Control? Shanghai Knights? The Two Jakes?

I agree, surely this was the stupidest quote in quite sometime: It's only taken 100 years to produce two sequels that were of the same quality as the first: and that was Lord of the Rings!

Robocop 1: good 2: bad 3: ppppew!

Indiana Jones 1: excellent 2: hmmm 3: cool

Godfather 1: Wow 2: WOW 3: ....

StarWars 1: Cool!! 2: Cooler!! 3: Ewoks

Aliens 1: Groovy 2: Funky 3: Stinky

Matrix 1: 2: 3:

The "Tri Colors" trilogy were cool, but they weren't actually proper "sequels" by any means.

Anyhoo, everyone knows that sequels generally stink to high heaven, if you ask me the game industy gets away with it a HELL of a lot more than other industries!

Picture these conversations, if you will, that I recall having:

Senario One (films)

A: "I just saw this cool movie, The Matrix!"

B: "Yeah! I saw that too, it rocked!"

A: "I hear they're making a sequel..."

B: "I hope it doesn't suck... :frown:"

A: "Yeah... :frown:"

Senario Two (games):

A: "I just played Half Life, it rocked!"

B: "No kidding, it's the best game ever!"

A: "I hear they're making a sequel!"

B: "WOW! THAT'S GONNA KICK ASS!!!"

Games have it MUCH easier.

[Guest James]

tomb raider one through 6 - meh, nah, meh, dang, crap, oh dear, pass the bucket.

[peb]

Well, an example of music sequels: every song Ricky Martin ever made was a sequel of his previous song. Same shit all over again with the exact same butt throbs, only the words are slightly different.

Can I just point out that "The Butt Throbs" would be an excellent band name?

[schepton]

Hey!

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusdae is alot better than Raiders.

[MrHoatzin]

No you cannot. You're so banned.

[tabacco]

Can I just point out that "The Butt Throbs" would be an excellent band name?

You should submit it to http://www.davebarry.com/rockbandlist.html

[Erkki]

Game sequels are often even better than their predecessors:

Thief 2, GTA 3 & VC, Hitman 2, Gothic 2, Baldur's Gate 2 etc.

[Skinkie]

Hey!

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusdae is alot better than Raiders.

I wouldn't say alot. Some yes. It is definatley some better.

[Chris]

Hey!

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusdae is alot better than Raiders.

Incorrect! It is possibly a more "fun" movie, but by no means better.

[Dr Edison 007]

They're both good movies, which I didn't get to watch at a movie club I go to because people wanted to watch The Flintstones. Damn, people are idiots.

[D.C.]

Incorrect! It is possibly a more "fun" movie, but by no means better.

Everyones got an opinion. I agree with Chepito.

[vimes]

Following thin is inspired from a good word from Harry Knowles - yeah, it happens in a while... -

"You can tell if a sequel is gonna be good at the very first brainstorming, usually a guy says :

-Hey man, i got an idea : why not making a Jungle Book 2 ?

and the marketing guy is like:

- Yeah! Go for it, go, go, go!

and the sequel is surely going to suck.

But sometimes the dialog goes more like:

- Hey man, why not making a Jungle Book 2? I got an idea!

and the marketing guy is like:

- Yeah! Go for it, go, go, go!

And that's a good start for a good sequel."

So sequel aren't fated to be horrible things that both public and critics flee... so, Doug Lowenstein, you're not totally wrong but your argument sucks and the history of sequels tells us that glorious sequels are very rare. And also that the greatest movies are non'sequels one. So, please, shut up, think for a while, restrain from talking and remain quiet for a few hours more, think it all over once again, check with your mates if what you're gonna say isn't folish and then.. say it.

[spaceship789]

What bullshit.

Maybe he considers all bands second albums as sequels?

They're both good movies, which I didn't get to watch at a movie club I go to because people wanted to watch The Flintstones. Damn, people are idiots.

Criticized movie sequels are so common that you've inadvertantly mentioned one - Flintstones (ie Viva rock vegas)

BTW, There are a good amount of Temple Of Doom preferrers. We tend to keep quiet tho.

[jp-30]

This is marginally related to this thread, and may provide a future 'quote of the moment'.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/th...t_id=1000575231

Turning films into good games: Mission impossible?

By Paul Hyman

When Warner Brothers Interactive Entertainment senior vp Jason Hall proclaimed recently that he would penalize developers who made "crap games" for WB IP, at least one game industry honcho smiled. For, according to Scott Miller, CEO of Dallas-based 3D Realms Entertainment, "99.9% of movie and TV licenses don't have the genetic material necessary to become good games. So, even with razor sharp incentives inches behind a publisher's back, it's just not possible to make a compelling video game from a movie license -- with rare exceptions."

Etc...

[Jayel]

I always thought it'd be interesting to see Adaptation the Game, where the player character is assigned the impossible task of adapting Adaptation the movie into a video game.

It would start off as an adventure game... then as the character attends the game developers seminar, all hell would break loose and turn into a zombie killing fps. oh what fun

[jp-30]

I always thought it'd be interesting to see Adaptation the Game, where the player character is assigned the impossible task of adapting Adaptation the movie into a video game.

It would start off as an adventure game... then as the character attends the game developers seminar, all hell would break loose and turn into a zombie killing fps. oh what fun

Being a big fan of "Being John Malkovich" (along with the rest of the world except my parents who said it was "stupid"), I was rather looking forward to Adaptation. And it started great, but I was thoroughly disappointed with the shootings, and stalkings, and runnings-over and such in the latter stages of the film.

I guess that's where your Carmageddon/GTA section would begin?

[MrHoatzin]

Being a big fan of "Being John Malkovich" (along with the rest of the world except my parents who said it was "stupid"), I was rather looking forward to Adaptation. And it started great, but I was thoroughly disappointed with the shootings, and stalkings, and runnings-over and such in the latter stages of the film.

I guess that's where your Carmageddon/GTA section would begin?

The idea of the latter part was to turn the movie abruptly into a stereotypical Hollywood movie — it worked on so many levels. It was executed masterfully, you just had to watch it carefully — if you blinked you would miss it.

[spaceship789]

Turning films into good games: Mission impossible?

...So, even with razor sharp incentives inches behind a publisher's back, it's just not possible to make a compelling video game from a movie license -- with rare exceptions."

Etc...

It is an interesting PR move to keep gamers confidence, at the risk of scaring away developers.

For the developer, "penalization" wouldn't be different from dropping the base wage, and increasing percentages. Call it restructured wage package, and no one would care, call it "built in penalization" and it will turn developers away.

I'd say Warner would have considered the negative PR to developers, but thought it more than worth the risk if they preserve the "Good Movie must be Good Game" myth that Enter The Matrix rode on. They want to sustain the "leap of faith" the game buying pubilc took on Enter the Matrix being a good game.

Its a brazen move. Not even Lucasarts, although they now predominantly use movie licenses, try to so publicly convince people that the game will be good if the movie is.

Its a quote that on the surface looks like its "Warner Bros focus on gameplay!", but it is the opposite. Its PR that seeks to perpetuate a myth, "That Good Movies will translate to good games", and in that sense it comes straight from the school of Marketing, with little regard for the school of Gameplay.

[jp-30]

The idea of the latter part was to turn the movie abruptly into a stereotypical Hollywood movie — it worked on so many levels. It was executed masterfully, you just had to watch it carefully — if you blinked you would miss it.

I realised a few days after watching it that 'The idea of the latter part was to turn the movie abruptly into a stereotypical Hollywood movie'.

It still didn't work for me at all at the time of viewing. A bit too clever for its own good, I guess (as far as I was concerned, at any rate).