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Roderick

future gamedesigners are dreamless drones

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CYNICISM IN THE GAMES INDUSTRY

Last thursday evening I attended a lecture on school on gamedesign. There was this guy from a Netherlandic gaming company called Playlogic and he told us about the development process. His emphasis lay a bit thickly on the financial aspect of development, whereas I was there to hear some less publisher-handy facts and some more designer quotes. I was to be sorely disappointed.

It was to be a sign on the wall. I was there with a classmate from Animation, and we were surrounded by a legion of people studying Game Design & Development. Mere weeks ago I had been pondering whether I shouldn't switch classes and hop over to GDD instead of Animation. I chose in the end not to because I like animating and I'll get there without specific schooling; but this evening showed that I would've made a grave mistake, had I switched classes!

Like I told you, the whole lecture revolved around technical aspects (where to get devkits) and economy (the money-thing). At one point, my friend and I asked the man about the creative side of the job. I myself queried if the host aspired authorship and wanted to make games bearing his signature, and what he thought of authorship in the games industry in general. A mocking outburst of laughter thrashed through the room, as countless Game Design & Developers mockingly wished me good luck in pursuing my ambition. The host assured me there was no such thing but a quickly conjured up argument that game developing was too big a project was whisked away by my statement that films were of equal magnitude (a clichéd point but valid nonetheless in this argument). In the end we agreed on disagreeing, but I was stunned. Stunned that we, two animators (coincidence?), had been the only ones to even show a remote interest in the creative aspect of gamedesign. We were smitten by such an overwhelmingly cynical response to our honest questions that it was almost a frightening thing to behold. A while earlier my companion had asked what was wrong with the games industry (with all the generic license games and EA and such) and the host only had a faint cover-up of an answer involving finances. But at that point, we both understood what was really wrong with it. It was that relentless cynicism that we witnessed. A mocking expression of anger towards anyone that still dared to dream and hope for a creative place in the industry. What I saw then and there in that auditorium were fresh publisher slaves that would never rise to meet their abandoned ideals. What had happened to these bitter men, to be so cynical, so young? Was it the school itself, which trained them to bow before the publisher's whim and had beaten into them that authorship is a myth? Was it their own doing, angstily having decided that all dreams are futile and a sign of weakness?

Oh I know that they must have taken us for gullible fools, thinking with ill-conceived arrogance that we'd sooner or later become just like them; cynical and 'realistic'. But they have judged poorly. What they see as being realistic I see as being mundane, unimaginitive and dull. Their arduous behaviour has only strengthened my resolve to pursue my dreams and fight intensely to be able to express myself through game development.

And those students of GDD? It would seem they have already made up their mind. It's always a poor sight to see people so young to have killed off their dreams and become chanceless drones, ripe for the picking by publisher sweatshops. I weep for thee, the meek. Sweet dreams.

-Roderick

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The days in which two creative students persue their dream and start their own game development studio in the garage are over, sadly. I wish I was born 10 years earlier.

--Erwin

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I don't think that's true. This has less to do with the timeframe but more with the state of mind of these students. Those garage-kids back then had a dream; well I have a dream as well. And call me naive, but I am of the mind that if I will it hard enough, I'll succeed. The problem is that these kids have no dream to begin with. They're going to enter the industry with the idea that it's just a job, a trade. Not an art. And there lies exactly what the fuck is wrong. They are going to be the future game designers. And they have no vision and for all I know won't even want to stand up to publisher bullying. Gaming is in a downward spiral indeed if these dreamless fools decide how our hobby shapes up in the future.

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You might be correct about the cynical attitude of those students (I guess I'll find out myself next month assuming this is the same group that will come to my gig) but I think you might have jumped the gun in assuming you were the only ones who had a remote interest in the creative aspect of game design.

I'd be surprised if none of the GDD students do in fact have creative ideas about games, and dream a lot about what their crazy auteur game would be like if they had a chance to make it. Judging by your story it seems they sort of accepted their fate and are maybe a bit too eager to show that they know what commercial realities await them, but that doesn't mean some of them might not secretly be dreamers. [And others might not even have the ambition to become lead game designer, and just want to become really good within their specific field. See Jake's post below - edit]

As long as they do fun stuff at college while they still can, I'm not too terribly surprised by their attitudes. Then again I wasn't there. :)

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Rodi, you're in the first year right? I bet most of that class won't be there next year and what I know of the HKU you won't get a diploma by not being creative. So there is still hope!

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There's a difference between game design and game development. One is a facet of the other. Your film analogy is somewhat appropriate, Rodi, except you assumed you were talking to the game-industry equivilent of a room full of aspiring directors. That's not who that audience was. There are people who are not interested in creating huge grand visions of their own design, but are still passionate about their work, you know.

In film, do cinematographers, set dressers, costume designers, lighting guys, focus pullers want to see their name on the top of the poster for the film they're working on? Probably not. They'd probably laugh if you asked them that, and say, "no my goal is to make a great looking film." Not everyone wants to be a high concept game designer or writer. Some people, even the ones with interest in game design, just want to figure out how to make gameplay work. Some don't care about that at all, and just want to write clean code, or make a compelling virtual space, or coax a great performance out of a lifeless 3D model.

There is definitely cynacism in the games industry, but you are going way over the top with your analysis of what you saw. I think it's a bit odd to draw the comparison between games and films as massive huge collaborative efforts involving countless people, and then scoff at the fact that the audience you were speaking at -- aka the countless people who make the vision of said enormous film or game happen -- are not realistically expecting to see their name at the top of the box.

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I'm just way too sensitive. I knew that I was exaggerating, but what I said as being very stunned was true. At that point point I had been sitting for over an hour listening to this guy rambling on about how to extract devkits from a publisher and how tough this was and blah blah blah. And the GDD'ers attending were only asking all this stuff about how to get there and elaborating about the devkit bullshit and, cripes. If they were interested in the creative part than you'd think they might actually have moved into that area. So when I finally opened my mouth and asked this one little thing that, for the first time in the evening, had to do with the artistry of the business, and was completely laughed at, well... it might be I got a skewed view on things :hmpf:

Oh I know there are dreamers among them, you don't get into the HKU education without some sort of vision. But I was so ticked off at their arrogance (they were practically screaming that I as a mere animator could never achieve what they wanted to become). I had to vent that. But still, I think the whole thing was a farce. Maybe the handful other lectures I didn't attend did look into the creative side, but if this was the standard then it may just be the education that's shallow. And I know that if I were in that class, I'd sure as heck be complaining my ass off that I wanted to hear something of any artistic value.

(btw, Ys, I'm second year now. Yeah- I'm moving fast :sombrero:)

Jake; point taken. It didn't occur to me yet. I only looked from my own motivation, which is to become a gamedesigner and all that implies. Didn't really realise that not all of them might aspire that. That said, I never scoffed at them for not aspiring it, I just never thought that they might not want to. Anything else was inspired by their wicked revulsion to the whole notion of me dreaming the dream.

[ADDED]: for clarity: the thing I did scoff at was their perceived attitude at just accepting how the game industry worked and not showing the frailest spark of rebellion.

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Hi there, i'm Rodi's classmate and i was an eye wittness to the horror that unfolded in front of our eyes.

anyways not to over dramatize things i was kind off offended about how the man (playlogic) reacted. Seemingly he was in awe of big market leaders and kept reffering to them as tough business men who would not listen too young developers and made developers get down on they're knees to pray for devkits. He talked about the harshness a bit too much, and tried too ingrain a feeling that there was no space left for the newbies in the industry. Also he talked about how specialised people have too be if they want too enter the industry.

And this in front of the not soo specialised students of the GDD. And that's exactly the problem i had with the speaker, the subject and the entourage. Is that there is no such a thing as a trained Game Designer. Even the speaker said this, that there was nothing like that.

But yet the GDD people train in bits and pieces of gamedevelopment. And yes Jake not everybody wants to become a Games Designer! But neither will they be trained good enough to be a junior animator or a rigger at a Games Company.

This is the same story i heared from a friend of mine who interned at Games Company (that will remain unnamed) were the execs there (as at another unnamed Company) hated the untrained ppl comming from the GDD, because they could'nt do anything with 3d nor with animation nor with anything else for that matter. They were just sitting ducks waiting for the unemployment line.

And that brings me to speaker himself the man was an old ID (interaction design) student. He studied webdesign and made games in shockwave. When he left the HKU he was unemployed too but called Appoint (job agency) and got a job at Davilex. A company he even spat at but nonetheless it gave him the chance too become a 'true' game designer. So even he got lucky and here comes my point the man was a programmer. He programmed Director Lingo and because of that he could ad to the production pipeline and he was hired.

This is a familiar thing among small companies people have to be able to produce too so there are mainly technicians on board of those kinds of companies. But that does not mean that they're creative or could make a concept float, and seeing and hearing this guy i felt like a piece of code being boxed and linked to another piece of code. The whole Aura of what he told us just did'nt click in with my 'naive' beliefs of what games and what creativity is because i know that i've played a couple of really really well crafted games in my life (NINTENDO RULETH)

gr Lars

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Meh, don't even listen to Playlogic. They're one of the crappiest game companies ever. A company called Khaeon made a game called Alpha Black Zero, and Playlogic went around looking for a company to publish it. They got quite a few deals, a few good ones too, but they turned them all down because they wanted more money. The game wasn't even released until a year after the game was finished. Needless to say, Khaeon now has Trisynergy as their publisher and they will never have anything to do with playlogic again.

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They have an inhouse development studio as well... do they all think like that I wonder? I was planning on applying there after uni.

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Well, I don't think you're going to find much high-concept or super creative thinking at Davilex or PlayLogic if that's what you're expecting. Those companies are mostly about doing production and just trying to be competitive.

Sorry to hear you guys (Lars, Rodi) asked a valid question and got collectively flushed by a room full of people, which is definitely a shitty attitude on their part. But maybe a programmer working for PlayLogic is not the right person to ask that question. Or most programmers, actually? Also maybe there are a lot of game design lectures at GDD and you just attended a game production lecture that had an emphasis on the business and practical side of things, which led to people dismissing your question. I'm not trying to defend something I don't know of, but I am just saying the lecture you saw might not be enough reason to be frustrated, at least not on a scale involving the HKU or Dutch game development scene as a whole. (I expect you to be frustrated with the people who shrugged off your question though.)

Anyway, do you know Two Tribes? They're sort of the creative type of game developer. Maybe a lecture by one of them was more what you were expecting to hear -- not a dry lecture on game production by someone from PlayLogic. Apparently one or more GDD students had their internship at Two Tribes, working on fun pixely retro DS and N-Gage games.

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Thanks for understanding, Marek. Yes I know Two Tribes, right now they're making Three Tribes for the Nintendo DS. The guy from Playlogic was, by the way, a gamedesigner, it was his actual function and he clearly stated that he didn't program or did art or anything, that he really was there to oversee the whole shebang. I did calculate already that it might just have been a crappy lecture. Still the attitude of the people attending seemed wholly uncharacteristic of what I'd expect of HKU students. But I'm curious what your own views will be about that when you've teached for that class in the coming months :)

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As someone who has worked with PlayLogic...

If I had to compare them to EA, at least EA pays their employees on time.

Take that how you will, just factor that into which road you decide to travel upon.

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I hae to agree with this post. Mark, I understand the distinction between the production and design lectures, but the ones on design I attended personally, looked like production lectures as well :)

I went to several lectures on the HKU, and people from Playlogic, Nokia and Guerilla all told the same:

1. There is no design talent in the Netherlands, we have to pick up people from abroad. Me thinks: bullshit, there is enough talent, I believe they are simply not looking the right way.

At one point me and others had the oppertunity of presenting like 10 games next to the lecture hall. After the convention everyone walked out, NEVER looked at the games and started talking business and eating cheese. And, they just told there was no creativity in the Netherlands! Then #$$T$@# look at the games as a start, you zombies dressed as humans!

2. Business, figures, boredom. Yes, figures are darn important, but talking about it the whole lecture is NOT a good thing when you are lecturing art students. They are simply focussed on other aspects in game development.

3. Lack of creativity. "We made a mobile game on a popular TV show in the Netherlands. Important was that we wanted a game really BASED on the TV Show. After 30 brainstorms, sleepness nights and a tight pizza busget we have come up with PONG! The really cool thing is that the game background image is exactly the same as the TV Show setting. Nifty huh?"

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I am so glad now that I didn't choose to to gamedesign.

Are you still on the HKU, dacloo? And you, _oswald, do you still work in the [Netherlandic] industry? Tell us about yourselves (preferably in the chit-chat forum in the appropriate introduction topic, but I'm curious. My post seems to have attracted some outside interest :)).

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Ah oops from Lars' story I thought he was a programmer. :)

Marek; he has a background as a Lingo programmer. He made games with Lingo before he got the 'status' Game Designer at Davilex (a company he openly spat at, the ungreatfull @#$%). Like everything else everything he talked about was built around his 'image'! It was much like the advertising world where people claim a word before they're name and suddenly they become the omnious 'Art Director' what the #$%^ that may ever be. Because i've met some lousy ones in my life.

_oswald; That shows how fake they are #$%^ em and feed em, cos i don't need em.

dacloo; kind off sorry that i have too find out this way, but anyways they'll kill em selves off and maybe then from the rubble will rise something fresh and entertainin... at least i will pray for that.

greetz Lars

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And you, _oswald, do you still work in the [Netherlandic] industry?

When I first read that I thought you said Neanderthal (rather than Netherlandic).

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When I first read that I thought you said Neanderthal (rather than Netherlandic).

HAHaaaa :grin:

Presumably home sapiens and neanderthals lived in the same general area in different villages around 15.000 years ago in the middle east... don't know if they did design games together though... erm....

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When I first read that I thought you said Neanderthal (rather than Netherlandic).

Seen the current state of our country you could say the difference is smaller than you'd think.

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If i were a game development company and only wanted to make money, I'd hire a game designer who understands the technology, economy and the market trends really well. damn the creativity.

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If i were a game development company and only wanted to make money, I'd hire a game designer who understands the technology, economy and the market trends really well. damn the creativity.

wow you truly have the recepy to world domination

:shifty:

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Are you still on the HKU, dacloo?

I graduated as a Master in September, 2004 :-)

I didn't do Game Design btw, but Interaction Design. At the time I started studying at the HKU, there was no education on game design. Personally, I would not choose this study if I had to do it all over again, I find the Game Design study too 'narrow minded' in relation to Interaction Design.

I would not have done Interaction Design as well at this point, but that's another thing :P

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Heh. I wish I didn't choose the safe route and do Business Information Systems, and something more creative instead. Oh well... Uh, carry on... :shifty:

--Erwin

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