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syntheticgerbil

Get your portrait with Shrek 2!

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wtf? if there still is any real creativity in the modern commercial movie market it would have to be in animated movies! what more could you want then a movie that is as funny and challenging to adults as well as children as the incredibles? what about movies like belleville rendevouz? of course shrek 2 was a huge disappointment, but then again one could argue that the first one wasn't such a brilliant movie either. if there is still any part of the big budget movie business where creative people have any influence, apart from burton movies, it's in pixars movies! if you want more interesting animated movies, how about watching movies that are not originally aimed at children! there are interesting and challenging animated movies out there, not finding them in mainstream cinema is hardly a good criteria....(do you wanna blame six-year-olds for an unsophisticated taste in cartoons??? jeez)

but the thing about shrek 2 shows just how fucked up this stuff gets as soon as money starts rolling in, :barf: that's about all i've got to say about that.

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Kid 1: Hey guys! Look what I got at walmart yesterday! I go a picture of me with Shrek!

Kid 2: Shrek? Man, that's not cool. We got ours taken with THE ENTIRE DVD BOX OF SHREK 2.

Kid 1: I am surely better off dead. wtf.

Kid 2: Well you're dumb and I'm going to bully you now.

Kid 1: Alas, it is too late for me.

What, do you get your picture taken with a picture of the DVD box or something? Or the entire cast of Shrek 2? Or does the Shrek you get your picture taken with have more facial muscles that 'Shrek 1'?

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I'm really disappointed in animated films today. Capitalist repeats of the same idea equipped for marketing. Nice graphics is about all I can say.

Che_Guevara.jpg

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so your problem is the fact that most big movie releases in animation are tied in with big merchandise deals with the likes of kellogs? so i suppose if your movie made it that big and kellogs offered you to license your brand name for 50mil dollars you would say no, because, you don't wanna make money with it to make sure you don't get to make another movie.

i honestly don't care if a producer makes a billion dollars out of his IP, as long as the product does not suffer from it. in the case of shrek 2 that is probably the case, but apart from that, there are no sequels at the moment, every single piece of animation released is new IP and that means a LOT of creativity in that sector.

what is the problem with animé? i like it! the problem is that real feature animated movies take a lot of time and effort to put together (=money). so contrary to regular movies, the boundaries are much higher in the full feature category, but i am sure that there are a load of short film independents just waiting to be discovered.

I personnaly really like animé for instance:

Ghost In the Shell

Ghost In the Shell: Innocence

Princess Monoke

Steamboy

Appleseed

Final Fantasy:Spirits Within (liked the style, disappointed by story)

Beautifull Day (can't remember the correct name, have it around here somewhere)

The point being, that if you really are such a fan of animation, you would know a lot more movies yourself and you would bite the bullet and see shrek 2, because it wasn't all that bad! But the way you wrote about it was just a blah blah piece saying "oh disney doesn't do good independent animation" well guess what they never did!

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I never did get into anime. Seriously, I do love the ideas, themes, and issues explored in the movies (I liked the idea behind Princess Monopokeman or whatever that was called). But to be blunt I can't stand those HUGE-ASS eyes and that every-fucking-other female heroine looks like a prepubescent schoolgirl in a uniform, and that the men look like women dressed in drag. And this whole thing about Japanese men getting erections over these blatantly obvious young girl characters.... ;(

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yes i do believe that you actually don't have a lot of insight into animation, are not a real fan and are just bitchin' because sometimes it's nice to totally oversimplify a complex topic to the pure unadulterated selfindulgence that is your unreflected point of view. you show no insight and this is where i stop to care. if you wanna rip something to pieces, next time try to know what you are talking about.

EDIT: this is directed at syntheticgerbil or whatever that name is

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I never did get into anime. Seriously, I do love the ideas, themes, and issues explored in the movies (I liked the idea behind Princess Monopokeman or whatever that was called). But to be blunt I can't stand those HUGE-ASS eyes and that every-fucking-other female heroine looks like a prepubescent schoolgirl in a uniform, and that the men look like women dressed in drag. And this whole thing about Japanese men getting erections over these blatantly obvious young girl characters.... ;(

Believe me, you're not missing many "themes". Princess Mononoke is a striking exception that is actually pretty awesome. Most other anime deals with the same lamer overdone themes. And I too hate the ridiculous cookie-cutter stylistic aspects of anime. And I've seen enough anime, believe me, to know that most of it is pretty bad.

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yes it is, but there are good movies!

still it's too easy to say animation is bad over the board, big movies need big budgets! what you get when fanboys get money and good actors to realize their dreams is movies like the punisher! worst movie i ever saw! fuck that one was so obviously a fanboy project and totally wasted the talent of its starring actor.

so no there is not that much good mainstream animation, apart from anything done by pixar. and just because you can't pursue mature subjects doesn't mean you can still be challenging, you just have to be more subtle.

I am delighted at the quality that animation has had in the last 10 years overall, it's not like we're hitting new heights in marketing, it's just that they keep getting so good, we don't appreciate it anymore. and i thought shrek 2 had it's moments, tho on the second go around it did seem a lot flatter than the first time... still, cheap shot and that's all

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think that was the guys from Ghost in the Shell

about the quality of most animés all i gotta say is that this cut-down cheap way of animation makes it possible to create this huge number of animation, it also means that a lot more animation get's done, a lot more stories get told...in my stupid opinion, empowering writers can't be such a bad thing! yes there is a lot of shit and a lot of stereotyping, but every once in a while there are real diamonds brought to light and they make it all worth for me. after all no one forces you to watch the shit and you are essentially left with a LOT of choice, and I like THAT! anyway... not everything is sailormoon and pokemon and those are only so well known, because there is no sufficient audience for adult animation, guess who's fault is that? ....

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yeah i know, i am being cheap...

sorry about that...one can't help it sometimes.

but i have to say that your point of view was just too populist and too easy to attack (or rather it was too easy and too just to defend animation) for me to pass up. By this point i have been up for far too long (about two days straight) without doing anything, and that's doing shit to a man.

about the

"cunt"

business, i'd love to have one, though i'm told it's not all it's made up to be (don't believe the hype, i guess) and yes i am very disappointed about THAT (not so much the not having, but rather the nullification of part of my belief structure :grin: )

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populist in not going into any depth in your criticism. i understand your frustration, but these things are never going to change, because the first thing on your checklist has to be "please the masses". so in that regard i still think that animation is doing a tremendous job, thinking about the anarchy (in terms of the writing) seen on movie screens. it's like the dance on the razors edge, how far can you go before you lose the mass audiences and i'd say that pixar is going pretty far. also your background probably is quite important when you are making statements about this stuff.

so i take it that you are mostly referring to the design and i would have to agree with you on that one. but i guess we western countries just don't have the right attitude to allow for feature animation to be handling mature topics. i would actually like to see that and thought that stuff like titan AE and atlantis were pretty courageous and possibly a good start, but they didn't do very well so studios won't be going into that direction anymore. and i would love to see more mature design as well, but since the whole audience thing is not working with more mature content, i don't think it'll work with nice quirky design... so there goes that... i don't know how to change that, but i would like to. japanese animation on the other hand has it's own problems, but they are dealing with it more mature in terms of content. of course there is the whole animé style to contend with... and i grant you that it's downright awefull. but at this stage i don't mind that if it's well done in terms of technical execution and story... which it is in some instances.

By the way Metropolis is a reimagination of the original fritz lang film from the 1920 if i am not mistaken and barely based on a short idea by the director (can't remember those japanese names...) basically some kind of tribute project if i am not mistaken and if you look at it that way, it's kinda awesome that people get together to do stuff like that, since commercial success took a backseat on that one...

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Intrepid: go watch any studio ghibli movie and tell me you still don't like anime.

It's got sooo much more depth than any other movie out there. No big eyed 30 year old school girls in their movies.

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to syntheticgerbil:

i am not going to make any personal attacks and don't see how i could, SINCE I DON'T KNOW YOU!

ok apart from that i was merely referring to the fact that you actually being IN animation probably gives you a (possibly privileged and better informed) different angle on the whole thing. reducing anime to the moneysaving way they used moved pictures is cheap in my opinion. and as far as not in depth is concerned, i am talking about the fact that i am very much able to enjoy animated movies and the little clever jokes they sometimes have. having been a huge fan of animation for as long as i can remember i try to catch anything that comes my way on any possible channel of distribution, but as i hope you agree, there is not enough time in the world to watch it all. in terms of TITAN AE and Atlantis (the later of which i actually liked) i am referring to the shortlived departure from the fairy tale disney theme. i would enjoy movies rehashing some of disneys past in live action movies like the jules verne movies in the late 50s and 60s.

Roger Rabbit was btw not done with computers but by hand.

I am sorry if you feel offended but the fault lies with you, since that was not intentional. If you are not able to enjoy the many different aspects of animation I am sorry for you!

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Hey, lailoken and syntheticgerbil! Chill, please, both of you, okay? It's perfectly fine if one doesn't like something and the other does, for whatever reasons. At least respect each other's decisions.

Intrepid: go watch any studio ghibli movie and tell me you still don't like anime.

It's got sooo much more depth than any other movie out there. No big eyed 30 year old school girls in their movies.

What themes are explored? How deep are the stories? Are they difficult to find in the U.S.?

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Princess Mononoke is one of them, and I think you mentioned you've seen that one. That's probably the deepest of the Studio Ghibli film. It's certainly my favorite. They're all easy to find as far as I know.

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Pixar is supposively only general in terms of story because of Disney's influence which may change soon.

I don't think Disney wrote the films, did they? Then we would have some "Americanime" crappy action thing like the rest of their recent movies.

Just to clarify.

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What themes are explored? How deep are the stories? Are they difficult to find in the U.S.?

I don't know how hard they are to find in the US. The themes that are explored range from growing up to fairytales to life in general. I kown you will totally adore my neighbour totoro. watch it with your little neices and nephews. They'll like it aswell! :)

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I don't know how hard they are to find in the US. The themes that are explored range from growing up to fairytales to life in general. I kown you will totally adore my neighbour totoro. watch it with your little neices and nephews. They'll like it aswell! :)

Saw it. Loved it. Niece and nephew own it.

I want my own goddamn cat bus.

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