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Duncan

The Sims and Girls

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Again, thinking out loud...

I kind of agree with the notion that a very big problem is the social aspect. We have reached the happy state where it is no longer uncool and nerdy for a guy to be a "gamer", but that situation still exists for many girls (and I do mean girls rather than women, most of whom are now empowered enough to do their own thing - but it is the formative stages that have a lasting effect).

However, the anti-nerd days are still in very recent memory, and if anything is responsible for a lack of consideration of women in games it is this. Many, many of today's game designers and programmers were probably shunned when they were pursuing their hobby in childhood and teenage years. Where were the girls when they were putting in the hard work learning to write code on their amstrad (and I mean socially, not necessarily sexually)? Now, suddenly, they are making lots of money and being creatively succesful and out of no-where women want a slice. After being persecuted for being a "geek" for so long, I can't totally blame these people for feeling suspicious when the mainstream comes calling for a slice of the pie. This also explains the current crop of "game-makers as rock stars", as an overcompensation for the bad old days.

Go therapeutic misogyny!

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I'm high on objectivity man!

Why? It might not be a comfortable topic, but acknowledging these things is the only way to fix them.

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I'm high on objectivity man!

Oh, so you've read The Fountainhead, yes? I was into that shit years ago by my ex. Seemed a good philosophy at the time until I realized my ex was using it as a means to avoid dealing with deep issues in him. And the fact that Ayn herself had used it to brainwash one of her handsome followers into sleeping with her (at the expense of his wife going into turmoil). And she was one ugly beeyatch.

Why? It might not be a comfortable topic, but acknowledging these things is the only way to fix them.

Well hey, I'm a veteran at discomfort. Do go on, hon.

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Where were the girls when they were putting in the hard work learning to write code on their amstrad (and I mean socially, not necessarily sexually)?

Well I have loads of female friends but... but... :\

Anyway, I think that's the first time I've read that particular angle (the whole post, not the above sentence, that is.) Well described, I can see the sense in it. By the time all the ex-nerds have become adult programming geeks though, I don't know if the closed-circle manner in which a lot of technology is developed for is necessarily deliberate though. I think that after x years of that being the only way, it just becomes a habit that would require a lot of thought and a fair bit of effort to change. It's similar (though much less extreme of course) to the way Jack Nicholson's character in 'As good as it gets' has spent so long living by himself with no-one else in his life that he's actually forgetten how to make friends and be socially accepted. Ah, I really like that film.

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Oh, so you've read The Fountainhead, yes? I was into that shit years ago by my ex.

No, I haven't read it. Maybe it's one of those ideas that can be reached independently. Having followed a scientific path for most of my life I've always viewed objectivity and rationality as virtues. The book and ideas look interesting; maybe I'll get it, although I can see I a lot to question in it already.

Well hey, I'm a veteran at discomfort. Do go on, hon.

I'm done for now :D

Metalmickey:

I didn't really mean that all this was happening deliberately; I meant to imply that it was all unconcious. Yay for amateur psychoanalysis!

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1. Women like micro-managing, a stereotype, but it comes from somewhere, trust me, I've seen my sister play the sims 2 and she micro-manages EVERYTHING. She even has a printed sheet on the printer with a little schedule for every sim. Not kidding about that thing.

Also what someone said about guys liking action movies and girls liking talk-talk movies, not really true but something interesting: some talk-talk movies, like the usual suspects, ahve the potential to become action movies, the sims only has the potential to become......a romantic comedy or an existential comedy. I mean I remember when my sister bought the sims 2 thinking 'awesome I'm gonna be a soldier'. My guy gets into this crappy car they drive off and.....time fast forwards. I felt so ripped off then.

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This is a very nice thread :yep: My gf is a Sims addict, and she has 5 expansion packs of the first one and the second game. She actually stays up till 2 AM playing this thing, so that thing about it's for "casual gamers" doesn't really hold. If you are into the Sims, it takes over your life just like a strategy game like warcraft 3 does. And the sucky part is, it never ends. She recently bought KOTOR and Fable and she loves both :) so girls can play other stuff besides the Sims.

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Having followed a scientific path for most of my life I've always viewed objectivity and rationality as virtues.

Objectivity thy name is half-assed devil from outer space with no real existence...

EDIT: I didn't know Ayn Rand, but looking at that site - it seems (objectivism). .. well somehow naive....

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;( You wouldn't have wanted to know Ayn Rand. Trust me.

She wasn't very hot was she...... :blink:

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:eek::eek::eek:

AAAARHrhRHRgrHGRRHgHRHRGrr

meeeelting.....

This is an awfull hetz against me.... phew.... :cens0r::bomb::pan: :awesome:

EDIT: it's really scary trep - I can't sleep now...

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HA - yes... err

Well ok, no I'm not.. and that would be gross... But I'm certainly imbrewable to your eeevil avatar... :deranged:

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I think the control device also proves a hazard to female gamers.

Give them a microphone (SingStar), dance mat (all kinds of dance games) or EyeToy (erm, EyeToy?) and women seem to open up to gaming a hell of a lot easier.

Maybe the keyboard and mouse are synominous with computer users/geek culture? Discuss.

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I must decline, I have previously had trouble with relationships with dead woman with crazy philosophies...

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Hmm. I guess it takes a certain type of personality to play a game like The Sims, and it's not the sort of personality that 'real' gamers tend to have. Or something. Did that make sense?

It's also harder to be socially acceptable among a group of females if you're a gamer, than it is for a group of guys.

:shifty: Thought, as a longtime "girl-gamer", that I might throw my two cents in.

My three sisters and I have been "real" gamers ever since the Intellivision days, and we still are. I think it really is a grand misconception that A: most females don't play video games, and B: if they do, they don't like "real" games. I play all kinds of games, from Metal Gear Solid to Resident Evil to Final Fantasy and yes, The Sims... and everything in between.

My personal favorite genre? Survival horror. Hardly what females are stereotyped as enjoying. So yeah, I DO like the Sims 2, but I also like a whole bunch of other stuff more.

Incidentally, I've never noticed that it isn't socially acceptable to be a female gamer, except to- guess who?- some guys. They find out a girl likes video games, and automatically think "oh, how cute, she's just saying that to please me" and try to show her how to use a controller/keyboard/mouse/whatever. :cens0r:

I recommend checking out womengamers.com for some statistics of how many gamers are female (who actually play games, not just buy them for other people).

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