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toblix

Half-Life 2 deathmatch has landed

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Man there's lots of dev crap in the HL2 texture database. There's obviously menu icons for all the known weapons, but also for an iceaxe, binoculars, stunstick, flaregun, sniper rifle, a "slam" (whatever that is), tau cannon, pulse shield, molotov ... what the hell?

Also the CS: S texture database now shows what could be bitmaps of early versions of the other skins, though I can't be too sure. (Looks too high-res for CS Classic, but maybe I underestimate its quality.)

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If this was a proof of concept that gravity in multiplayer is fun then HL2Dm is a big succes. But for the rest it's actually pretty crappy.

No teamplay or tactics whatsoever, which is a bit of a shame :/

TIme for a good multiplayer mod for HL2 :)

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Considering this was something people weren't expecting to get in the first place, thrown in as an extra along with the SDK update and HL2 patch, I don't see why people feel obligated to complain about it.

Would you rather they had waited a month more to release the DM add-on? Surely in a month or so the problems will be ironed out through some Steam update or another. For now you get to play around with it. I don't see the harm?

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OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE, PEOPLE, STOP YOUR WHINING!

C-S:S is NOT retail. You paid for Half-Life 2, not C-S:S. C-S:S is a nice extra you received with your enormously awesome copy of Half-Life 2. Same goes for H-L2 DM. If they were selling C-S:S or H-L2 DM as stand-alone products and they were crappy or unfinished (which neither of them is, anyway), you'd have a right to complain.

The current lagginess of H-L2 DM is likely down to crappy servers, and the fact that 12,000 people are all trying to play at the same time on a limit number of servers.

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OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE, PEOPLE, STOP YOUR WHINING!

C-S:S is NOT retail. You paid for Half-Life 2, not C-S:S. C-S:S is a nice extra you received with your enormously awesome copy of Half-Life 2. Same goes for H-L2 DM. If they were selling C-S:S or H-L2 DM as stand-alone products and they were crappy or unfinished (which neither of them is, anyway), you'd have a right to complain.

Just as you have the right to your opinion I have the right to mine.

When I bought HL1 I expected the contained multi-play version to be complete... and it was. How is this any different?

As I said, you have the right to think that my opinion is wrong. Telling me I'm whining is another matter all together. I'm allowed to think what I want.

Opinions are like ass holes. Everyone has one, and they usually stink.

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Just as you have the right to your opinion I have the right to mine.

When I bought HL1 I expected the contained multi-play version to be complete... and it was. How is this any different?

As I said, you have the right to think that my opinion is wrong. Telling me I'm whining is another matter all together. I'm allowed to think what I want.

Opinions are like ass holes. Everyone has one, and they usually stink.

Number one rule of engagement: You're not allowed to go on a defensive. Defensives, being usually lame, are not fun to read. You get one demerit while AGA is in the lead. Repeat the offence and you will be banned.

Man, being an admin is so much fun!

Score:

AGA :tup:

GFMcB :tdown:

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It's pretty much bullshit to call CSS an extra, Valve explicitly informed the community that it was the multiplayer part of Hl2. Since no game's multiplayer is sold as a stand alone product people have the right to bitch about it.

At the same time, I have no idea why they would. CSS seemed complete to me, it is the most fun multiplayer component in a FPS I've played. And I generally loathe them.

Kingz: You really want to convert to 3d just to tack on some superfluous action sequences....listen to what you've become!

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Kingz: You really want to convert to 3d just to tack on some superfluous action sequences....listen to what you've become!
No, the end sequence requres some action... better it be in 3d than lame 2d...

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Number one rule of engagement: You're not allowed to go on a defensive. Defensives, being usually lame, are not fun to read. You get one demerit while AGA is in the lead. Repeat the offence and you will be banned.

Man, being an admin is so much fun!

Score:

AGA :tup:

GFMcB :tdown:

;( Do I have to put my name on the board? ;( (that was a joke. I'm not being a sarcastic jerk, please don't ban me :erm: )

I'm sorry. I had a point, but I never got to it. I'll do that now. This is my reasoning for believing that CS:S should be better than it is. I'm not sure if this is defensive or not, so if someone could please give me an opinion before I get banned I'd appreciate it. I like it here.

CS:S is indeed a retail product. This is because if I flip the box that HL2 comes in over it says Also Includes: Counter Strike SOURCE The next installment of the world's #1 online action game!

If CS:S is not to be considered part of the product, then they're sure marketing it as an amazing secondary reason to buy this game.

By saying that it's the "next installment" it makes the game sound complete AND it makes the game sound DIFFERENT from the original.

I would argue that since the only levels that are included with CS:S are graphically altered, but still generally almost the exact same levels as the original CS (only there are fewer of them) CS:S is incomplete.

If you're going to try to make something "THE NEXT INSTALLMENT!!1 R0xx0R" you make some new levels. (Fans would have made a billion copies of the original CS levels anyhow.)

If you're going to go the "easy route" and use only levels that were pre-mapped and designed and tested, you should at least include all of the mainstays that came with the last version of CS.

As I see it, they've used CS as a milk cow. Even when CS was still available for free on the Internet they started selling it in stores. (Whenever I saw someone in a store looking at it, I'd tell them they should save their money.) Then they release CZ, then CS:S.

I have no experience with CZ, but CS:S seems more like a graphical update than a "Next installment."

People say to wait, because it'll be better and be updated. I accept this, and will wait, but at the same time I believe that I shouldn't have to, because I believe it (as said before) to be a part of a retail product.

I wouldn't buy half of a movie. I wouldn't buy half of a car. I wouldn't buy half of Counterstrike.

Besides, there must be someone somewhere who is going to buy the game just to play CS:S and not the single player. If the game (CS) is a beta, as a few people have told me, the box should indicate this.

Note: spell checked for you enjoyment.

Edit: Obviously this is the only way that Source should be looked at, you Welsh Wanker!

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No, I'm pretty sure CS:S is finished. There was a beta, quite a while ago. But Cs has always been a strange animal. If you like your devs to step away from a game once it is "done", then you won't like spending a long time in the CS community. Constant tweaking is what it's all about. This is a game that belongs to The Mob.

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No, I'm pretty sure CS:S is finished. There was a beta, quite a while ago. But Cs has always been a strange animal. If you like your devs to step away from a game once it is "done", then you won't like spending a long time in the CS community. Constant tweaking is what it's all about. This is a game that belongs to The Mob.

Very true. I suppose if I had never played the original, I wouldn't know anything was missing. It would seem more complete.

As it stands I think it needs more skins and some new levels, and some tweaking.

I also think it's time for a few new guns. This however, is another matter all together.

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Something that annoys me is the half-assed news/support in Steam. For example, if you right click HL 2 and select Update News, you get a list named "Complete change list", and it's far from complete. Notice how it doesn't even mention the game's release...

And with the SDK, there are heaps of problems with it, and it seems a lot of it is due to Steam's directory structures and whatnot (It's obvious that Hammer was never made with Steam in mind), and they have announced a $5000 HL2DM map making contest, but there's no real way of making HL2DM levels yet.

And the SDK documentation is horrible.

And much more!!!

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;( Do I have to put my name on the board? ;( (that was a joke. I'm not being a sarcastic jerk, please don't ban me :erm: )
No defensives! Just attack in response! It is much more amusing to witness! Example:
OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE, PEOPLE, STOP YOUR WHINING! :tup:
Just as you have the right to your opinion I have the right to mine. :tdown: MY OPINION IS THE LAW, YOU WELSH WANKER! :tup: :tup:
See how that works better? It hits the spot at just the right angle.

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Some new CS: S skins would be welcomed as it wouldn't just be a cosmetic update. You'd actually have to pay more attention to who is friend or foe. I'd like that a lot. That's also why I've grown to love friendly fire, as it makes things more calculated and less haphazard.

Toblix: if you're trying to list complaints about Steam, those are probably the weakest ones. The HL2 changelog is in fact complete. It has the obligatory first entry which in this case is "made available for pre-loading" instead of the usual "released to the public", but all the updates since then are listed (just one). You might have gotten more updates, but those were for Steam, not HL2, and are listed elsewhere.

I don't see your problem with the HL2DM contest. You can start mapping and scripting right now, and when the deathmatch behaviors/triggers/whatnot become available (I assume from your post they're not available now) you can easily insert them where they're needed. It's just a drop-down menu, you know...

Steam isn't perfect but these complaints are either unfounded or very minor.

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Toblix: if you're trying to list complaints about Steam, those are probably the weakest ones. The HL2 changelog is in fact complete. It has the obligatory first entry which in this case is "made available for pre-loading" instead of the usual "released to the public", but all the updates since then are listed (just one). You might have gotten more updates, but those were for Steam, not HL2, and are listed elsewhere.

I don't see your problem with the HL2DM contest. You can start mapping and scripting right now, and when the deathmatch behaviors/triggers/whatnot become available (I assume from your post they're not available now) you can easily insert them where they're needed. It's just a drop-down menu, you know...

Steam isn't perfect but these complaints are either unfounded or very minor.

My post wasn't an attempt at a complete overview of every weakness of Steam in order to bring Valve crashing down or anything. It was more a listing of what came to mind as I wrote the post, the main point of which was my slight annoyance at the lack of HL2DM support in the SDK. Maybe the "much, much more" could've been cut, though.

The change log isn't a big point for me, really. It was just an example of the inconsistency I feel is found all over Steam. Why isn't Nov 16h listed there? Isn't that an HL2 update? If the preload is listed, the unlocking should be, too. Also, haven't there been several HL2 updates that aren't listed in the log? How about the one where that attempted to fix the stuttering? That isn't listed. The HL: Source log reads "Added HL: Source to 'Coming soon'". Why doesn't it say that it was later moved to "My games"?

I know I can start mapping right now, but why didn't they release the .gdf right away? And why can't I launch the game right from Hammer? Why do I have to set up Hammer manually when everything's placed in Valve's own folder structure? The automatic setup didn't work, so I had to fix it myself.

I'm not saying I hate Steam or teh V$lve or anything. I'm just saying that it's like they've released this SDK with a bit too little QC and without proper documentation, and I had the impression this was supposed to be the final stuff. Still, people are talking about more things to come in the next days/weeks, but Valve haven't mentioned this as far as I know.

I've had less problems with Steam than most people, and I never said these are major pains in the asses. Which one of the complaints were unfounded, though?

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I'm not saying I hate Steam or teh V$lve or anything.
You mean Va£v€?

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Steam is poo. No getting around it. FACT.

HL2 DM seems rather bandwidth heavy as well - up to 7kb/sec displayed on netgraph 3 with only six players. Having said that, it seemed fine for me - maybe you people have been playing on overwhelmed servers or something? I think a server admin who slapped HL2 DM on a server intended for CS, without tweaking the maximum number of players, would soon run into trouble.

Did anyone ever play the Melee 3D deathmatch map for the original HL? It was great, and beautiful. Make me a version in Source. NOW!

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Which one of the complaints were unfounded, though?
Err, the complaints about the changelog? There's been only one update/fix, and it's there. It has the information you expect to find in a changelog. :deranged:

That the SDK feels a little incomplete is a valid point, but not the point you made earlier :) It's a developers tool though, so if it takes a one-page guide to set it up correctly instead of setting itself up automatically, that's alright. I didn't make me go "mmmm convenient!" but if you're working with an SDK I think you need to set your expectations for user-friendlyness slightly lower.

I mean I agree with you on the whole, I just don't think these issues should be given the same weight.

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Err, the complaints about the changelog? There's been only one update/fix, and it's there. It has the information you expect to find in a changelog. :deranged:
Uhh...I'll just repeat myself with added text formatting:

Why isn't Nov 16th listed there? Isn't that an HL2 update? If the preload is listed, the unlocking should be, too. Also, haven't there been several HL2 updates that aren't listed in the log? How about the one where that attempted to fix the stuttering? That isn't listed. The HL: Source log reads "Added HL: Source to 'Coming soon'". Why doesn't it say that it was later moved to "My games"?

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Marek, toblix is right. Not all updates are mentioned in the list. It's not that important, but it's something you'd expect to be there... The stuttering fix is not there, that was not the November 30 update (= there has been at least 2 updates to HL2 if not more). That stuttering (non-)fix wasn't documented anywhere. Peouple couldn't tell if their game actually got updated unless they watched the monitor or read on some HL2 forums that it added a console variable.

BTW. My opinion about the stuttering issue is that the Source engine is differently optimized than some other engines, and that's why it has really great framerates, but gets that stuttering every once in a while.

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