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Moosferatu

The Incredibles sequel

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Maybe Chris really doesn't like the action endings because they are all so damn similar. Its OK for an action-based climax if it's actually doing its job and making the viewer excited. Movies are slipping too much into the 'splosions evEwhere' climax, while old films like Pinnochio can get away with their climax because they're original (running from a smoke filled whale=good action).

It is indeed sad to see a film slip into crowd pleasing mediocrity, but at the same time it may be completely new to the young kids watching the movie, maybe the weren't wowed by Star Wars or bored by LOTR yet. And if the kids like it, that's the whole point isn't it?

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Maybe Chris really doesn't like the action endings because they are all so damn similar. Its OK for an action-based climax if it's actually doing its job and making the viewer excited. Movies are slipping too much into the 'splosions evEwhere' climax, while old films like Pinnochio can get away with their climax because they're original (running from a smoke filled whale=good action).
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
It is indeed sad to see a film slip into crowd pleasing mediocrity, but at the same time it may be completely new to the young kids watching the movie, maybe the weren't wowed by Star Wars or bored by LOTR yet. And if the kids like it, that's the whole point isn't it?
Well, this is the first Pixar movie I've seen that, until the end, I really enjoyed for ALL aspects all the way through, which is why it was disappointing. While I loved Toy Story, Finding Nemo, etc., it's a given that they didn't exactly have the deepest characters in the world and so forth. Pixar has been leading their field with what they do, but I feel like The Incredibles is certainly their most mature offering yet, which is why it was more difficult for me to say "Well, if the kids liked it..." Generally their films appeal to both kids and adults, but with some of The Incredibles it felt like "Well, kids might enjoy this part, who knows, but the adults definitely will." It seemed like Pixar had a different approach to this one; so do I.

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Quite frankly I don't understand what the problem was? What exactly do you consider the ending?

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The only REAL flaw of the movie is that Violet, dear sweet cute innocent Violet chooses the POPULAR BOY at the end as her romantic interest -instead of realising that good looks mean NOTHING and choosing for the non-existent teased nerdboy who is actually the COOLEST of all schoolkids.

I have a crush on a polygon character and I'm not even ashamed of it.

I know you're joking here, but did anyone else find the general message of the movie a bit, well, disturbing? As far as I could tell, the Incredibles were ensuring that they got to remain superior to everyone else. The scene mentioned above has Violet basically assuming a place at the top of the high school food chain, and the scene with Dash in the school race especially smacked of them affirming a kind of smug superiority complex. Syndrome, nutcase though he may have been, had a fundamentally good idea of equalising the playing field so that normal people weren't at the whim of superheroes/villains.

Or have I just been listening to too much Pulp so have class warfare on the brain?

PS: Yes, the baby was a bad decision.

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I know you're joking here, but did anyone else find the general message of the movie a bit, well, disturbing? As far as I could tell, the Incredibles were ensuring that they got to remain superior to everyone else. The scene mentioned above has Violet basically assuming a place at the top of the high school food chain, and the scene with Dash in the school race especially smacked of them affirming a kind of smug superiority complex. Syndrome, nutcase though he may have been, had a fundamentally good idea of equalising the playing field so that normal people weren't at the whim of superheroes/villains.

Or have I just been listening to too much Pulp so have class warfare on the brain?

PS: Yes, the baby was a bad decision.

I agree with you in terms of the movie's message; it's not one I would support generally. However, I gave it credit for HAVING a message that wasn't something like "Friends are good" or "Help other people" as is the case in pretty much every other general-audience animated film.

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I agree with you in terms of the movie's message; it's not one I would support generally. However, I gave it credit for HAVING a message that wasn't something like "Friends are good" or "Help other people" as is the case in pretty much every other general-audience animated film.

Yeah, I liked the fact that the film did try to raise some interesting issues, it's just a pity that they lost interest in them. Mr Incredible's partial responsibilty in making Syndrome who he was could really have gone somewhere, but they seemed to forget about it and instead go for the somewhat unsatisfying 'big finish' you've mentioned already.

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Oh my God, Kester, I hadn't even considered what you said! Indeed, it would seem the Supers have taken back their place as the top of human evolution. But I think, even though it's not really pronounced, there certainly is the idea that these are responsible people, who have received these powers to guide and help the normal folks. It's not entirely correct to see them as normal humans like everyone else. They're more like omnipotent arbiters that try to blend in as well as they can. Leading back to the real moral of the story, being that you have to accept what you are, whether you're super or normal.

Still vexed by the fact that Violet's coming of age meant she became a perky average girl -but no, I musn't think these things of brave sweet Violet.

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I am sick and tired of the whole "everybody's equal" bullshit and disagree vehemently with the message of the movie being "disturbing". If you're better than anyone else at something or other, fuck everyone else. Mediocrity is encouraged in the US too fucking much. Syndrome's a bit on the paradoxical side since he is obviously quite bright, but he fails to realize that that alone puts him ahead of most and into the super arena.

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I think I agree, but this is really another discussion. The Incredibles has no intention of making a statement about this in any way, so let's not defile it with bickering and flamewars :fart:

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I think I agree, but this is really another discussion. The Incredibles has no intention of making a statement about this in any way, so let's not defile it with bickering and flamewars :fart:

That is the message of the movie, though, with very little of it open to flamewarring and bickerments... if what you said was directed towards me.

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I am sick and tired of the whole "everybody's equal" bullshit and disagree vehemently with the message of the movie being "disturbing". If you're better than anyone else at something or other, fuck everyone else. Mediocrity is encouraged in the US too fucking much. Syndrome's a bit on the paradoxical side since he is obviously quite bright, but he fails to realize that that alone puts him ahead of most and into the super arena.

when you're right, you're right. and you're right.

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I am sick and tired of the whole "everybody's equal" bullshit and disagree vehemently with the message of the movie being "disturbing". If you're better than anyone else at something or other, fuck everyone else. Mediocrity is encouraged in the US too fucking much. Syndrome's a bit on the paradoxical side since he is obviously quite bright, but he fails to realize that that alone puts him ahead of most and into the super arena.

I'm not so sure "If you're better than anyone else at something or other, fuck everyone else" isn't something that's encouraged in the US. I mean, maybe when you're in kindergarten it's not, but...

EDIT: I was going to further explain my opinions on the movie's message, but never mind. It doesn't really belong in this thread I guess.

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I think I agree, but this is really another discussion. The Incredibles has no intention of making a statement about this in any way, so let's not defile it with bickering and flamewars :fart:

I disagree, I think the movie quite definitely makes its point consciously.

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From the k12 education system to the American Idol and all of reality television; they encourage mediocrity. I am also shocked how many mediocre artists find their way to the art schools... I SEE MEDIOCRE PEOPLE! THEY'RE EVERYWHEREHEHWEHWEHHEHW~!! They wouldn't have gotten where they are if mediocrity were not encouraged. I mean, in this country we want our presidents to be "good moral people" which is a great euphemism for "bland" -- being smart is NOT DESIRED...

Bah, bum clouds! :fart:

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I don't know... Most of the non-arts majors at my school, and others I'm sure, are graded on a curve, which leads to almost cutthroat competition in which students will refuse to help one another, and so forth, hoping to edge our their fellow students for that chance to get into a good graduate school. Those who have the greatest aptitude for math, or computer science, or medicine, or whatever, clearly have the edge in a system that is graded by rank rather than effort or some other subjective system. This is not the case of arts education, which is not as objectively graded.

Though I don't have much (read: any) experience in it, the corporate world too seems to be pretty cutthroat; those with the best business sense seem to be able to stomp all over those without.

And of course you see mediocre people everywhere. That's how things are. Mediocrity is pretty much defined by what your average person is. I'm not sure what you mean by "getting where they are", because getting to art school isn't really much of a test of how well their mediocrity will actually carry them upon graduation. I suspect most art school graduates do not actually end up supporting themselves with art.

Also, there are other qualities besides being "smart". People want a president with a strong direction with which they agree. Unfortunately, in a country with this many people and so many ridiculously differing opinions, you're not going to get a president with a strong direction (unless he gets in office pretending not to have one) because that guy is only going to please whatever minority of people happen to agree with that direction. Politicians have to come off as middle of the road so they can be people's lesser evil, not an ideal candidate. It's retarded, but I disagree it's because of some encouragment of mediocrity.

I have never actually seen a reality show so I can't really comment on that. I also haven't seen American Idol but I do know about William Hung (actually I know him personally) so I guess that's what you're referring to. It's true he enjoyed a burst of popularity but he pretty much got fucked by the record company that signed him and I suspect he won't be heard from much again. Mediocrity didn't work out for him quite as well as it looked like it was going to. As far as the show itself, again I haven't actually seen it, but isn't there some judge that insults everybody pretty scathingly, thus not exactly encouraging mediocrity? I suspect even the winners of that show aren't particularly amazing singers, but pop singers often aren't--that's certainly not something restricted to the US, or to this era at all.

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The way understood it (although I never actually heard him sing) William Hung wasn't mediocre, he was a joke. A running gag that suprisingly paid off; and I doubt anyone was expecting a burgeoning career to issue forth from the steamy bowels of American Idol. I mean, even its' successes are failures.

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Well, I wasn't implying there was any reason he WOULD succeed, which was pretty much my point.

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Yes, but since you did say you knew him personally, "fucked by the record company" sounds a bit nieve. It was more of a "reasonable and easily forseeable occurence".

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He was only signed because people laughed at him. He was only kept for as long as the joke stayed funny.

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I disagree, I think the movie quite definitely makes its point consciously.

It may have made a point in the general direction, but the emphasis lay on the happy-family thing.

Returning to the irritating non-Incredibles-related talk; yeah, I think you shouldn't strive for mediocrity. In the Netherlands it's still too much that you're head gets lobbed off if you stick it out of the cornfield too much, but that attitude is changing. It's a bit too extreme to be saying 'fuck everyone else', implying that you're going to not care about those that aren't as skilled or talented as you are. Remember, Spiderman doesn't hold back on showing his superpowers, but he knows that with great power comes great responsibility. Towards yourself, and the rest of the world, be they meek or great.

Concluding our sermon.

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Yes, but since you did say you knew him personally, "fucked by the record company" sounds a bit nieve. It was more of a "reasonable and easily forseeable occurence".

It sound a bit naive to think that ANYONE who signs to a record label isn't fucked by the company. The guy has no musical talent whatsoever, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he sold WAY more albums than he got paid for. I sure as hell wouldn't buy it, but a surprisingly high number of people did.

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I disagree about that being the message of the Incredibles. I think it's actually about differences, not superiority. You'll notice that the supers never say they're better, only different, or they'll specifically say having super powers. Also the supers aren't trying to establish their superiority. They just hate not being allowed to help people when they have the power to do so. I think it's about celebrating difference. It doesn't matter what your talents are, or what you look like, but how you use them.

Also notice that the fame of being a super isn't what they want (Mr. Incredible goes to the island the first time and immediately starts feeling better because he's doing what he loves, even though he's not receiving recognition). It's about doing what you're good at, and doing it in a way that helps everyone.

Syndrom from the beginning wanted to be famous, not help people. If he wanted to help people he would have just started being a super-hero with his inventions, but as a kid he tried to attach himself to an established celebrity super-hero. Throughout the movie all he cared about was fame and power, where the supers have power and all they think about is helping people.

The theme isn't that some people are better than others, but that everyone is different in their own way and we should tolerate and celebrate our differences. And everyone should use the things that make them different to make the world a better place, whether or not they get noticed for it.

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Possibly, but I don't think it really came across that way. Whenever they were talking about Dash in school, it seemed to be very much about him just being better than the other kids on track. He being allowed to use his talents in sports doesn't really have anything to do with helping people.

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