Three Moves Ahead 537: Humankind

[Rob Zacny]

Three Moves Ahead 537:

Humankind
Len, Rowan, and Fraser gather to discuss Amplitude's Humankind, the Civ competitor that has been looming large over our release radar for the past couple years. How does it compare to Sid Meier's finest work, and even this studio's previous 4X forays? Will it reignite the spark for those who have lost their love for the turn-based march through history? And aside from all that, is this game even done?

Humankind, Civilization, Old World, Endless Legend

 

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[krusydr]

Thanks for this podcast.  As a 4x gamer, I was really looking forward to Humankind and I'm glad Amplitude dared to take on the challenge of making a new "Civ."

 

That said, I completely agree with the general direction of your comments. Humankind feels too afraid of it's bolder ideas.  I miss the RPG elements of Endless Legend that really set it apart.  The narrative parts are far too repetitive and similar to other games.  They kind of reminded me of Frostpunk, which was a game I enjoyed, but was a much more focused experience.

 

Two games I didn't hear mentioned that I think were important for how I saw this game are Age of Wonders:Planetfall and Warhammer 40K Gladius.  Gladius did a great job of making combat a bit more interesting and fun (though you can just overwhelm with numbers if you want to).  Yet Gladius kept it all on the main map and tactics, while there, were minimal.  I liked that games focus, and even the faction quest lines kept the game moving forward.  Planetfall has really good combat. It's almost like an entire other game plopped into a 4x.  Sometimes I found it tiresome, but it really was the best part of that game. I also really liked the way Planetfall let you customize units, and the science system made for some really interesting combinations and choices.

 

The two biggest missed opportunities for me with Humankind are the rather bland faction design and the tech tree.  The tech tree is a travesty.  I really was shocked by it. It felt like they just didn't have time to really think about tech in any kind of creative way.  The faction design was disappointing to me only because of how good they have done with the Endless series.  I really wanted to see some strange and wonderful things, but they all feel too safe. 

 

I don't think it is a bad game. I like it. I find it fun.   I will put more time into it and further assess.  But I also think I might end up preferring gladius and planetfall.

[Procyon Lotor]

I agree that the tech tree is . . . bland.  And religion is an appendix of a mechanic.  

 

I think the combat system is fantastic.  The 1UPT mechanic of Civ V, Civ VI, and Old World never quite engages me.  The "zoom in tactical battles" of Age of Wonders et. al.  are fun for a while, but seem to take too much time and are only occasionally interesting.   The Humankind system, with terrain, 3 rounds per turn and multi-turn battles, reinforcements, etc, is really cool, and hits the sweet spot between detail and time consumption.  This is the first Civ game where the military strategy might be my favorite part, and I've played them all since Civ I.  

 

I really appreciated the conversation about optimal game settings.  A lot of these free-form strategy games play *very* differently depending on the settings - difficulty level, landforms, size, pacing, and number of opponents.  I'm playing Empire, Large World, Random Landforms, Normal Pace, but with 10 opponents.  I'm not winning, but I'm having a great time, and I'm under a ton of pressure from the AI throughout.  My first games, on the default settings, were quite easy and quite boring.  There have been past 3MA episodes where I've been frustrated that one of the panelists complains about something that can be easily addressed by adjusting the game settings.  It was good to hear that conversation play out in this episode. 

[TrebuchetGuevara]

Listening to the part about the factions lacking personality, I thought perhaps a framing device would work for the game. For example, the 4x game you're playing is a simulation being run by a group of fixed characters. These characters would be like the commanders in Advanced Wars and have fixed traits and personalities outside of the multiple civilisations you choose through the game. I feel that would be a (relatively) simple solution to that particular problem.