Erkki

Extraordinary League of Gentlemen

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I never really felt Lost in Translation to be stressing its art house roots. In fact, I'd describe the whole movie as really easy-going, laid back, not concerned with a great many things. I was just absorbed by the rythm, the otherworldly atmosphere. You can't call this movie badly written and 'failed on all fronts' just because you don't have a clue what the heck is going on. Lost in Translation is rightly lauded as a poignant and subtle story about friendships and loneliness in my eyes. I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy the movie, that's wholly possible, but it goes too far to present your opinion as a fact.

Also, I wasn't bothered by how Coppola protrayed the Japanese. For starters this is how they actually are. Of course there were exaggurations (as a people I wouldn't want to be associated with that actress prostitute either!), but what offended you further? The talkshow host? The aggressive director? The kids playing weird games in the arcade? Or was it the traditional Japanese countryside wedding? Or the person Bob shared a laugh with in the hospital?

Even IF it may have seemed that Coppola took a one-sided approach to depicting the Japanese, she never judged them. It's a theme in the whole movie; she doesn't judge what she sees. Not the strange culture of the Japanese (of whom all the examples in the movie are common place in Japanese city life!), nor the fact that Bob is on the verge of committing adultery (but refrains from doing so to sustain the idyllic relationship with Charlotte). The movie has a lot more subtlety than you credit it for :)

Lastly, about Citizen Kane. Ha, I admit I was rather provoking in words. I have to say, I understand that the movie was revolutionary in its imagery and setup of the story. But I just found myself rather uninterested with it all. Revolutionary for its time it may have been, but that doesn't mean it's still up to par with all the rest from this time. Therefore, I appreciate that it was groundbreaking, but still see it as a rather boring movie. But from a cultural point of view, I'm glad I saw it. Once.

:eek:

God, man, this is so much :fart::fart::fart::fart::fart::fart::fart::fart: :fart: that reading it is making me unbearably uncomfortable. The very fact that you are comparing Lost in Translation to Citizen Kane is a heresy; like comparing A Mother's Gift to The Odyssey.

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Well I just don't see it like that. But to each his own.

And Kingz, relax. I'm not comparing the two movies. I said that for me, Kane was a more boring ride than Translation. That's all. The two movies have nothing in common.

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I don't have anything very intelligent to say about Japanese stereotypes in Lost in Translation, but I will say that a good friend of mine who is Japanese loved the movie and considered it among one of his favorites of last year. As far as being in another country is concerned in general, I'll say that when I spent time in Italy, while I enjoyed it a lot I definitely felt very out of place (I'm Italian in case that matters). Being outside of your comfortable environment for an extended time especially when you already have something missing in your life can be very disorienting and alienating, believe me. I'm sure this affects some people more than others, though, and I'm definitely one of those people.

Also, I'll agree with whoever said that the film didn't really come off as particularly art-housy. It was very relaxed, not intense or obtuse at all. I don't understand why it not "going anywhere" was much of a problem. Considering a movie "boring" is hardly much of a worthy criticism, because that's among the most subjective of subjective judgments. Some of the greatest works of all time in any medium are described as "boring" daily. If nothing else, Lost in Translation was something of a change of pace, especially in the midst of the other big films at the time such as Return of the King. When I walked out of ROTK my head was about ready to explode, but when I walked out of LOT I felt pretty much pleased with the last couple hours I'd experienced. That is of course is completely personal as well but since most people here seem to universally agree that the acting and direction and photography were pretty solid, it shouldn't be a stretch to see why so many people enjoyed the film. Anyone is free not to, but to say something like "I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY ANYONE ENJOYED THIS CAUSE ITS SHIT" is ridiculous.

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Being a fan of "bad" movies, I have a high tolerance for horrible movies, but I can still tell when a movie is :fart:

At least most of the time...

Garfiled? It sucked BIG TIME and it wasn't even faithfull, you could even tell they had a hard time making this movie last more than 30 minutes.... :frusty:

LXG? Being a comic book fan I found it OK, and since I wathced it with a girl I liked, I ended up liking it, like all the movies I saw with her... :innocent:

Being a BIG Scooby fan I adored the movies, but I understand why non-fans don't like them...

My sister is a Garfield fan and she actually LIKED the Garfield movie! :eek:

I haven't seen Lost In Translation, and I can't remember if I've seen Citizen Kane... :erm:

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LXG? Being a comic book fan I found it OK, and since I wathced it with a girl I liked, I ended up liking it, like all the movies I saw with her... :innocent:

Are you a fan of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen comcis?

The only way I could handle the movie was by saying to myself, in a mantra-like way, 'At least I can go home and re-read them'. The movie plundered the comic's style and setting for window dressing and then stuck a fairly trite action romp in front of it.

Not enough conspiracy, pseudoscience, drug addiction, or grime for my liking.

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When I said art house, I didn't mean bizarre angles, long shadows and crazy scene switching...I meant in the more modern sense. Like "indie" films, which is what LiT is, in a sense.

And for Rodi, if you fiirst watched citizen Kane as a small child, you should watch it again now. Its just good, and unboring if you listen to the dialouge.

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I was offended by Lost in Translation's purely instrumental use of the Japanese, and its insistence on reinforcing the "oh my, what quirky people!" stereotype. For what was supposedly Sofia Coppola's love letter to Japan, she has a helluva way of expressing her affection. (And before everyone gets in an uproar, bear in mind that I'm not the only one who feels this way: so do many Japanese, who rightfully take offense at the ridiculous exaggerations Coppola indulged in for the sake of a few cheap laughs. These are actually the worst instances of Coppola's instrumental use of the Japanese.)

Er I think that misses the point slightly Walter. I mean one could probably easily do a remake of Lost in Translation where someone from another country feels entirely out of place in America, and whoever made it would obviously want to amp up their portrayal of "Americans" to the most extreme examples possible to enlarge the feeling of culture shock and ridiculousness and being entirely out of place... It's not so much about "those crazy Japanese" specifically.

Er Chris already sort of said this entirely in his post / Italy example so nevermind.

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About comic book movies, when I first saw From Hell I liked it very much.

But then later I discovered the comic book albums from which the movie was made from, and my opinions about the movie changed totally.

Although Johnny Depp is teh greatest actor alive, the movie fell from 9/10 grade to about 6.5/10 grade.

And for the record, I love Lost in Translation.

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Are you a fan of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen comcis?

The only way I could handle the movie was by saying to myself, in a mantra-like way, 'At least I can go home and re-read them'. The movie plundered the comic's style and setting for window dressing and then stuck a fairly trite action romp in front of it.

Not enough conspiracy, pseudoscience, drug addiction, or grime for my liking.

I actually read the comic after seeing the movie.... :mock:

The first volume...

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Garfiled? It sucked BIG TIME and it wasn't even faithfull, you could even tell they had a hard time making this movie last more than 30 minutes....

Personally, I'm shocked to find out that someone actually bothered to see that movie.

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Being outside of your comfortable environment for an extended time especially when you already have something missing in your life can be very disorienting and alienating, believe me. I'm sure this affects some people more than others, though, and I'm definitely one of those people.

But did you sit at a window and hug your knees, while crying silently to yourself? And then did you try to phone home but they didn't really care so you hung up and cried a little more? And then did you develop a non-sexual love for a man four times your age, and frolick around Rome with him wearing a pink wig? And then did you get pissed off with him for sleeping with Sarah Brightman and not you?

Anyway, I don't understand why anybody enjoyed this movie, 'cause it's shit.

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And for Rodi, if you fiirst watched citizen Kane as a small child, you should watch it again now. Its just good, and unboring if you listen to the dialouge.

I watched it not a year ago for the first time, for semiotics on school. So it's not like I didn't like it because I didn't understand it or I thought it was boring because at the time I was only used to Transformers :) But thanks for thinking along with me, instead of taking an aggressive stance.

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But did you sit at a window and hug your knees, while crying silently to yourself? And then did you try to phone home but they didn't really care so you hung up and cried a little more? And then did you develop a non-sexual love for a man four times your age, and frolick around Rome with him wearing a pink wig? And then did you get pissed off with him for sleeping with Sarah Brightman and not you?

Anyway, I don't understand why anybody enjoyed this movie, 'cause it's shit.

Er the movie isn't realistic, nor is it supposed to be. It was supposed to convey those feelings in a filmey way, and I think it was really successful at that. It's a story, not a ... real thing. If one of the characters could fly around or something would you stop trying to hammer on it because the events in it aren't real but are instead symbolic?

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"I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY ANYONE ENJOYED THIS CAUSE ITS SHIT"
Anyway, I don't understand why anybody enjoyed this movie, 'cause it's shit.
And then did you develop a non-sexual love for a man four times your age, and frolick around Rome with him wearing a pink wig? And then did you get pissed off with him for sleeping with Sarah Brightman and not you?

It looks... it can't be... but it looks... almost... like a joke!

:innocent: Only we all know I never mess around, so it couldn't be.

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Er the movie isn't realistic, nor is it supposed to be. It was supposed to convey those feelings in a filmey way, and I think it was really successful at that. It's a story, not a ... real thing. If one of the characters could fly around or something would you stop trying to hammer on it because the events in it aren't real but are instead symbolic?

It is very cheap symbolism.

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I wasn't enthralled by Citizen Kane the first time I saw it, but the second or third time I really appreciated it.

Go watch Sofia Coppola's film, The Virgin Suicides, and compare it to LiT. It has the same dreamy, slow quality, but manages not to be as boring as a dog's ass.

Don't watch The Majestic. I've never fought so hard against walking out of the cinema in my life.

PS this forum should have a sticky links thread. Llama llama llama.

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How so?
Everything was by the numbers, everything happened where and when it was supposed to happen and everything was -- aww -- naive and everyone was one-dimensional. Textbook example of Hollywood trying not to be Hollywood. I have nothing against subtlety; I liked The Royal Tenenbaums. Lost in Translation just gave me nothing. I walked out of the theatre with a curled lip and a vague sense of disgust and disappointment and no inclination to cut it any slack for what it is -- let alone like the movie or love it.

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Yeah thats what I thought was so pretentious, everything was portrayed as a break from normal cinema, but it looked like it was trying to be different. The whole experience of watching that movie was a grim affair for me.

I too liked the royal Tenenbaums, does it have some sort of connection to Lost in Translation? Or did you just bring it up because of its kind-of-the-same style?

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I too liked the royal Tenenbaums, does it have some sort of connection to Lost in Translation? Or did you just bring it up because of its kind-of-th-same styl?
It is a very subtle movie. You blink and you'll miss it. The awesomeness is hanging by the thread -- and there is no thread for the Lost in Translation, the awesomeness has fallen into the chasm long ago... I was listenin to the election while I was typing that... so my train of thought was lacking... the coal... of coherence... yeah...

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Well, at least we can agree on The Royal Tenenbaums (and the election).

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Shattered Sponge says:

What did Bush have to do to lose? Masturbate on national TV?

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there were a couple of funny bits, but for me the most annoying thing was at the end when bill murray whispered in her ear and this piece of dialogue was the catharsis and happy ending for both characters, and WE CANT HEAR IT. talk about cheating your audience...

rodi? what? fortuyn? racist. (<-another thread) citizen kane? are you nuts?

loxg - i loved reading the moore/sim letters... (i think kingz might know what i mean)

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