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Ben X

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I wonder if the reason I'm so cool on Marvel movies is that they exhausted Hulk with poor movies before the MCU. He was always my favourite. 

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On 28/10/2017 at 4:13 AM, Gwardinen said:

I felt the other way about it - a lot of this film read to me as a desperate grab at recreating Guardians of the Galaxy's success by aping its style visually, audibly and comedically. Which isn't to say that it didn't succeed a lot of the time, and I'll take a fun, light-hearted superhero (really more sci-fi) romp over the endless grinding misery of most of DC's attempts any day.

 

Visually I guess although I'd say Guardians goes for a darker palate. The reason why I'd compare the movies in the first place is they're both going for more whacky take on mostly stone serious comic book movies. I think Guardians still sticks to being more conventional which is something TR isn't doing. That's just my feeling though. I don't really believe that TR could exist without Guardians coming first and paving the way. The people commissioning this film definitely had Guardians in mind while making this, but I do think that the director took that feeling and ran with it as far as he could.

 

Comedically I'd say no it's definitely Taika Waititi infecting the film with his brand of on point Nu Zullund comedy.

 

Just quoting from Thor and his magic patu: notes on a very Māori Marvel movie

Spoiler

What is Māori humour?

Discussions of humour and its cultural origins are quite rare, chiefly because it’s tough to do and a very bad idea. But we can all agree that Ragnarok has a very Kiwi sense of humour, so within that scope we should safely be able to discuss the elements of humour that are distinctly Māori. Take another look at Taika’s very Māori-centric films (Two Cars One Night, Tama Tu, Boy, Hunt for the Wilderpeople), compare them with his other work (Eagle vs. Shark, What We Do In Shadows), and you’ll recognise a tone that is consistent across all of them: the comedy of deflation. Deadpan has a strong history in Aotearoa, not least via the rise of the Taika-adjacent Flight of the Conchords. But if there’s a factor which is definitely Māori in Ragnarok it is the pervasive and all-encompassing sense of irony that drains the dramatic tension from its source material and delivers equal-opportunities mockery.

The elimination of ego through humour runs through all of Waititi’s films and follows a basic formula: The Joke Is Always On The Person Trying To Be Smart. In Ragnarok this means the lead character – the superhero, the guy the film is named after – is generally the butt of the joke as he tries to outsmart The Grandmaster, insists he is stronger than the Hulk, tries to act nonchalant in front of Dr. Strange and generally fumbles as he tries to gather the pieces of his ego from the floor. In contemporary Māori culture there are few burns that scald quite so deep as being called “a cool guy”: “Far, what a cool guy”, “Cool guy is it?” There is no sin so cardinal as attempting to claim power or status that doesn’t rightly belong to you. Very broadly, it’s seen as a misappropriation of mana.

The seam of irony that runs through Thor: Ragnarok couldn’t be more different than previous Marvel films which feature Robert Downey Jr as a billionaire smart-ass dropping glib one-liners. It also stands in opposition to the corny dramatics of Joss Whedon’s Avengers scripts, which Waititi seems to delight in gently mocking, as when Thor murmurs “the sun’s going down” a la Black Widow trying to calm the Hulk in Age of Ultron?

The comedy of deflation, the definitive directorial touch that makes Thor: Ragnarok so fun, has been a constant presence in Taika’s work from his first Oscar-nominated short to Hunt for the Wilderpeople. It’s not uniquely Māori, but it is distinctly Māori in tone, in rhythm and as a kind of philosophical outlook.

 

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I watched Spider-Man Homecoming (and realised during it - perhaps not for the first time - that the "homecoming" title is a reference to Spidey returning to Marvel) yesterday, and Thor Ragnarok today.

 

Homecoming was fine, but it was another Marvel movie that made me think "yeah, I see what you're trying to do here and you almost hit it", like Ant-Man going for cool heist caper or Winter Soldier going for old War spy thriller. It's often the aggressive overlapping with the MCU that scuppers it, which felt like the case here. The end credits had more youthful, anarchic energy than the rest of the film put together, and Spidey doesn't feel well-defined as a hero - he's more like Iron Boy here. It felt like a solid springboard for a great sequel though.

 

Ragnarok, meanwhile, was not just a good MCU entry but legitimately a fantastic film. I saw what it was trying to do and it fucking did it. I haven't enjoyed a Marvel film on its own terms so much since at least Iron Man 3.

 

(I also previously caught up on Dr Strange - fun if disposable - and GotG Vol 2 - an even bigger mess than the first film.)

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I watched both Guardians movies over the weekend.  I was pretty disappointed by both.  Not to say they're bad movies (by MCU standards anyway) but I just didn't leave them with the same level of satisfaction I had at the other movies.  Rather I felt like I did when I watched Avatar; lots of pretty visuals but paper thin plot and characters.

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I want another Ang Lee Hulk, and I want another Punisher film starring Thomas Jane.

 

But, more on point I fucking loved Thor: Ragnarok.

 

The comedy hit on every level for me, it was great to see everyone having genuine fun. I went to see this with a Polish friend and the first time Thor flexed his muscles she just went "Oh, hello."; I laughed thinking it was kind of adorable. Cate Blanchett came onscreen and I understood exactly what she meant. Then Tessa Thompson from 'Dear White People' and 'War on Everyone' and I was just like "fuuuck".

 

Great cast, lovely dialogue, and enough of it for me to not care what my nerd friends thought about the inconsistencies.

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On 12/3/2017 at 9:11 AM, Ben X said:

Ragnarok, meanwhile, was not just a good MCU entry but legitimately a fantastic film. I saw what it was trying to do and it fucking did it. I haven't enjoyed a Marvel film on its own terms so much since at least Iron Man 3.

This is wholly accurate. 

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On 12/19/2017 at 3:10 AM, Jake said:

This is wholly accurate. 

 

After this and our identical opinions on the Indiana Jones movies, I was very disappointed to find out you liked Last Jedi.

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On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 12:11 PM, Ben X said:

Homecoming was fine, but it was another Marvel movie that made me think "yeah, I see what you're trying to do here and you almost hit it", like Ant-Man going for cool heist caper or Winter Soldier going for old War spy thriller. It's often the aggressive overlapping with the MCU that scuppers it, which felt like the case here. The end credits had more youthful, anarchic energy than the rest of the film put together, and Spidey doesn't feel well-defined as a hero - he's more like Iron Boy here. It felt like a solid springboard for a great sequel though.

 

I watched Homecoming over the weekend and this mostly encompasses my feelings as well.  There's too much Tony Stark (seriously, can we get a movie without him being mentioned every other scene?) but the rest of it felt pretty good.  A small part of me is disappointed there's no origin stuff but it was a smart move not to show it (although showing a bit more of his motivation to be a hero might have helped).  I liked it overall.

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10 hours ago, Ben X said:

 

After this and our identical opinions on the Indiana Jones movies, I was very disappointed to find out you liked Last Jedi.

This being the Marvel thread I think it’d be on theme to say that if we ever meet in person, I’ll fight you. 

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God help me I think I'm gonna see Black Panther in theaters. I can't believe I'm going to fall into this again but I at least have faith in the production design and cast, if not the Disney machine. 

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6 hours ago, Patrick R said:

God help me I think I'm gonna see Black Panther in theaters. I can't believe I'm going to fall into this again but I at least have faith in the production design and cast, if not the Disney machine. 

 

I know how you feel; it's especially hard because you simply can't get a good read on whether a Marvel movies is good because most sources are either still in the tank for these things even if they're bad, or thoroughly over them and never inclined to give them a good review.

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On 2/18/2018 at 11:44 PM, Patrick R said:

God help me I think I'm gonna see Black Panther in theaters. I can't believe I'm going to fall into this again but I at least have faith in the production design and cast, if not the Disney machine. 

 

Based on nothing but having read some of your reviews and heard some of your podcasting, and having just seen Black Panther myself, im gonna guess you won't be very into it. Except for the production design and cast, which are both undeniable.

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I liked it but I like all the Marvel movies basically. I'd say it's my third favorite, behind Iron Man 3 and Thor: Ragnarok. It's also impressive that it's high up because mostly I just watch the Marvel movies for the goofs and Black Panther doesn't have a ton of jokes. I guess I also watch for the spectacle, and Black Panther's spectacle is pretty great, plus the soundtrack is really good, the villain is interesting, every single actor is amazing, there's some gorgeous costume design, and I like cats, and panthers are cats, right?

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On 2/21/2018 at 2:55 AM, TychoCelchuuu said:

I liked it but I like all the Marvel movies basically. I'd say it's my third favorite, behind Iron Man 3 and Thor: Ragnarok. It's also impressive that it's high up because mostly I just watch the Marvel movies for the goofs and Black Panther doesn't have a ton of jokes. I guess I also watch for the spectacle, and Black Panther's spectacle is pretty great, plus the soundtrack is really good, the villain is interesting, every single actor is amazing, there's some gorgeous costume design, and I like cats, and panthers are cats, right?

 

Okay, can someone explain to me what makes Iron Man 3 stand out? There were things I liked about it but to be honest the three Iron Man movies merged into one big blur.

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They're three pretty different movies. Pretty much the only things they have in common is that they're about Iron Man and War Machine. My favorite parts of Iron Man 3 are the whole Mandarin situation, Iron Man's character arc, the humor, Miguel Ferrer showing up, and the fact that Shane Black set another movie during Christmas.

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Okay, yeah, the Mandarin was a really great way to treat that terrible comic book character. I honestly didn't realise that was a Shane Black film though. I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

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Iron Man 3 totally grew on me, and it has a surprisingly heartwarming act 2 scene with the kid.

 

Black Panther was fine. It was fine. I can understand it if people adore this movie, especially if this is special to them because of the slavery/African-American themes coming to the foreground. It wasn't for me, so I saw a perfectly acceptable Marvel film in the cinema, it was fine, it was instantly forgettable, I'm glad I saw it.

 

Was it me, or did Andy Serkis' character really lose his mind in between movies? In Week of Ultron (refuse to call it Age) he was basically a sane resource robber in a stranded oil tanker, now he's giggling and doing a cool Joker thing.

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That's what I gathered! I thought: he must've lost his mind [and limbs] during the whole Ultron ordeal. (Which is, by the way, also a Marvel movie that's gone up in my esteem since first seeing it.)

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2 hours ago, Roderick said:

(Which is, by the way, also a Marvel movie that's gone up in my esteem since first seeing it.)

 

How so?

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