Sign in to follow this  
Kolzig

Star Wars Episode 8

Recommended Posts

I may be pedantic from that perspective, but as someone who was never a big Star Wars fan (even though I liked some of the movies well enough to watch them multiple times), I mostly view these as stand-alone movies, and am not giving them any kind of pass that I wouldn't give another movie.

 

Actually for some other movies like Blade Runner I was more willing to give a pass to some flaws, as I was just thrilled to have another great movie in that particular style again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, DoomMunky said:

And to me, at least, it's objectively

 

Sorry to be pedantic but don’t you literally mean “subjectively” here?

 

9 hours ago, MrHoatzin said:

 I thought the movie was p great, very nicely designed. The structure and pacing and reshuffled familiar setpieces doing new things reminded me of a good Telltale game, which I'll gladly take from the Disney machine. It set fire to the reheated lore pile of the previous five movies, did weird shit with the force and angered a bunch of nerds. These are all good things. :tup:

 

This is how I felt as well. (Other than the Telltale part but I get what you mean!) It was longer than I’d have liked, and a few scenes or arcs I thought were edited down to the bone and could have been dropped entirely for something simpler, but I liked what was there and was glad it was willing to mix up a lot of the big Star Wars ideas in ways I couldn’t always predict. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw the film again tonight, and I did enjoy the movie more on a second viewing.  I get the sense that this was at one point two or three different movies that were mashed into one.

 

 

 


The plot sequence on Canto Byte was even more jarring this time, even up through the sequence on the first order capital ship.  It felt to me like DJ's revelation about the arms dealers supplying both the first order and rebellion should have been the climax of it's own movie.  The fact that an issue like that is brought up, and then almost immediately abandoned in favor of reinforcing the whole rebellion is good and empire is bad conclusion makes the whole thing ring hollow.  The Last Jedi does this in a few places, where it brings up a really interesting idea then completely abandons the thread in favor of spinning up a new one.  Interesting aspects of the universe are brought up, but never discussed.  It's like having a conversation with someone who just learned about a new concept and recognizes it's importance, but hasn't really examined it well enough to have anything meaningful to say.

 

Also the humor the second time around was less cringe worthy, but in most cases unnecessary.  This goes back to my last point where each character at some point or another becomes the comic relief such that being witty isn't really an outstanding or really interesting aspect of any character.  I suppose some of this is the result of making a movie with an ensemble cast, but for me it really reinforces the idea that the director wasn't really confident in their work and used the humor as a safety net.  It's as though dialogue in spots was written by a middle schooler trying to get their first date, where everything is capped off with "lol jk, unless you're into it though" because jumping in with both feet might expose some vulnerability.
 

 

 

My opinion of the film did improve somewhat, and I find myself being more interested in the new direction for star wars than it being something familiar to my childhood.  I just hope the next time around the creative team has more confidence in their approach, and is more willing to commit to the heavier themes they so clearly want to explore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saw the movie today. Holy shit it was a weird mess. At least an hour too long and just not a good movie at all.

 

Spoiler

I'm too tired to say much about the disappointing and boring movie, but why did they ruin Luke's character so completely? The plot was all over the place and very messy and dumb. There were way too many throwaway characters that nobody cares about. Snoke, Phasma, Del Toro's character etc.

 

The whole scene with Leia floating in space was something that just didn't fit at all. One of the many dumb plot points of the movie.

 

I'm done with Star Wars. Not going to watch any of these new ones ever again. I don't care about the end of this trilogy, especially since J.J. is back.

Can't even imagine Rian Johnson with a new full trilogy when this movie was like this.

 

I need to forget these new movies somehow, I have managed to do that with the prequels during all these years so I suppose it will happen with these new ones since my memory is what it is.

 

Oh well, in the words of Mark Hamill. "It's just a movie."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just saw this in a 4DX theater, which is an experience I do not recommend. It's 3D glasses in chairs that rock back and forth and kick you in the back and spit water on you and blow fans on you.It was a bit like a three hour Star Tours ride, sure that is neat, but just like 3D glasses –which I admit I do find novel– it get physically painful after about 5 minutes, which is when the trailers are over. The fans were on during all the Ireland scenes which competed with the more chilled dialog and music there. I was interested to try the experience but I'll try and never do it again. 3D glasses, –which I admit I do find novel– are strenuous enough.

 

As for the movie. I have thoroughly consumed all the spoilers I could get my hands on, that is just my way of consuming media. So my expectations carried that ambivalence of lowered expectations. Despite knowing all the plot beats, I was engaged and entertained in the whole movie, although tired at the 6th act. The Devil is in the details and there are lots of cool details. Perhaps my irritation at the 4DX made me grateful there was an interesting movie going on. As for plot specifics,

 

Spoiler

I blinked in the moment whey Rey left Ireland and made it to the slow motion chase scene.

 

The Kylo Ben and Rey telepathic texting was good stuff.

 

Yoda had a really good chuckle as a puppet.

 

I enjoyed the DJ character as a rogue in the school of Han Solo / Kyle Katan / Dash Rendar. Casino was weird but I did like getting Rose's back story as a junker slave. Was this the sequence filmed in Croatia?

 

I would have believed the warp drive suicide crash more if there was a sequence where some one like DJ overrides the computer, or if Laura Derne was originally the warp drive pilot.

 

The salt planet sequence was an exhausting 6th act. And the crystal cats were annoying but at least they were utilized.

 

I assumed that Rey and Kylo Ben were in cahoots in the salt planet sequence.

 

That junker slave kid totally force pulled the broom into his hand.

 

I liked that the credits section of "digital artists" was a wall of text that filled the screen. The second film unit was big enough for its own film alone.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked it a lot.

 

I have nothing substantial to say about it yet, I just remember ppl being very not into it here and I guess I kinda get it but you're wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought this was OK, but began with a very bad sequence and in general would be better if about half an hour of action we've seen before anyway was cut. I thought the broad strokes were acceptable and despite many faults I bought into the Kylo/Rey stuff again. Very low lows but some highs as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh another thing I enjoyed,

 

Spoiler

In the final Rashomon-style Kylo Ben and Luke flash back, I like that it's Luke's robot hand going for the laser sword to smite Ben, as a representation of Luke's brush with the dark side, it also reminded me of the scene from Princess Mononoke, where Ashitaka's demon arm pulls out the sword to threaten Lady Eboshi. Which happens to be my favorite scene in Mononoke.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw the star wars! I liked the colors and the shot compositions and the general vibe of like, all the characters and how into being their characters they were.  Rose was the absolute best. Purple-haired Ellie Sattler was the absolute second best.  It was a super pretty movie, could not get enough of the 'wow what a great picture I'm looking at' feeling I got from it.

 

The story criticisms made in this thread make sense, I guess if I went back and saw the movie again and tried to find some sensible explanation for the decisions the characters were making I might be confused by that but none of kept me from 'believing' the characters and their motivations.  The emotional core of the movie was strong enough, for me at least, to stay invested despite narrative weirness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, plasticflesh said:

How much of Carrie Fisher's sequences were CGI and how much was authentic?

 

I think it was 100% her - they said she completed principal photography before she passed - but also I think they applied “digital touch up” to all of her performances, which every blockbuster seems to do to every older actor now, to smooth out their face. Maybe that wasn’t happening, but it really looked like it was. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jake said:

 

I think it was 100% her - they said she completed principal photography before she passed - but also I think they applied “digital touch up” to all of her performances, which every blockbuster seems to do to every older actor now, to smooth out their face. Maybe that wasn’t happening, but it really looked like it was. 

 

Yeah it must have been, because I got the uncanny valley effect every time she was on screen. I would very much like this to stop being a trend, because I find it consistently distracting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds like people generally like it more the second time they see it, which I think speaks to the criticisms of the The Last Jedi being more in terms of thwarted expectations rather than the film itself.

 

Re: Luke:

Spoiler

The biggest criticism seems to be that Luke is poorly characterised? The problem with this is that if Luke hadn't changed, if he was a Jedi master for thirty years or whatever and was happy to help whenever the galaxy needed him, there wouldn't be a plot for the new trilogy. (Thrawn is not a plot.) He certainly wouldn't have stayed on the far reaches of the galaxy as established in TFA. This way, they have an opportunity to tie in the prequels, or at least the interesting ideas from the prequels about Anakin bringing balance to the force by destroying the rigid, joyless husk that were the Jedi Order.

 

It was sad when Han Solo was still a bounty hunter thirty years later. Luke and Leia, at least, felt like they'd actually had 30 years of life, offscreen. It did feel, underneath, like he was the same character, just filtered through a lot of trauma and doubt and failure (and other stuff) that comes to the fore first.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jake said:

I think they applied “digital touch up” to all of her performances, which every blockbuster seems to do to every older actor now, to smooth out their face. Maybe that wasn’t happening, but it really looked like it was. 

 

Ahhh, is that what that was? Gross. I was confused because it looked like Fisher had got some bad facelifts, but I was under the impression she didn't go in for all that. I finally concluded that it was because they'd put too much colour in her hair so it didn't match her face. If they did digitally smooth her out, I think I find that more offensive than putting a CG or recontextualised Fisher in a few shots to fill any story-holes left by her death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may actually be thinking of Force Awakens, but I definitely found it distracting in at least one of the two ST films.

 

Didn't notice anything on Ford or Hamill, though. They were allowed to be craggy as fuck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, TychoCelchuuu said:

I'll have to watch it again and stare very closely but I recall her looking normal.

I didn't notice anything apart from the space scene obviously. I thought Carrie Fisher stole every scene she was in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, Carrie and Mark were both amazing in this.

 

Here is a great twitter thread on The Last Jedi, which eloquently puts into words why a lot of people loved the film:

 

https://twitter.com/ctblauvelt/status/944694860531068930

 

I wanted #StarWars to take a step "into a larger world" - I wanted that feeling of the stars streaking when jumping to lightspeed for the first time. #TheLastJedi delivers it. It is the very definition of larger than life – a story that goes deeper in addition to going wider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/23/2017 at 10:10 PM, Jake said:

 

I think it was 100% her - they said she completed principal photography before she passed - but also I think they applied “digital touch up” to all of her performances, which every blockbuster seems to do to every older actor now, to smooth out their face. Maybe that wasn’t happening, but it really looked like it was. 

 

Ah that make a lot of sense. I honestly hadn't thought of the digital makeup approach but that's definitely at play.

 

It's interesting because the scenes before the bridge destruction seemed like unadulterated Fisher, and everything after that had the uncanny glossiness. Which digital makeup explains. I'm sceptical if they were missing total coverage, pehaps scenes were collaged from different edits of footage with lot of cgi body actress replacement, e.g. in the Salt Hoth scenes. Perhaps the early bridge scenes had the least of this. What a morbid line of thought. Space Princess <3 👑

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, plasticflesh said:

 

Ah that make a lot of sense. I honestly hadn't thought of the digital makeup approach but that's definitely at play.

 

It's interesting because the scenes before the bridge destruction seemed like unadulterated Fisher, and everything after that had the uncanny glossiness. Which digital makeup explains. I'm sceptical if they were missing total coverage, pehaps scenes were collaged from different edits of footage with lot of cgi body actress replacement, e.g. in the Salt Hoth scenes. Perhaps the early bridge scenes had the least of this. What a morbid line of thought. Space Princess <3 👑

 

 

I wonder how much of that is an audience second guessing every appearance of Fisher because of her death and how much is really a post-production scramble. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw it last night and my thoughts are more or less that while I didn't actively dislike it, there wasn't much that I did like about it. I definitely liked Rogue One more, especially in terms of cinematography. I'm going to go through and read what you guys said about it, but I'll leave a few thoughts here first.

 

 

This is a minor thing, but I wasn't thrilled about the way this movie referenced the old movies. There's tons of small stuff, like how the movie starts with a rebel base evacuation like Empire, there's a ship being tracked (like Empire), the "dark cave" (like Empire), Rey turning herself in and confronting Snoke just like Luke in ROTJ, complete with the red guards and him sitting there with the light saber on his right. Then at the end with Luke and Kylo Ren you can't help but think of Vader vs Obi-Wan. Of course everything plays out differently, it's just that when they show those things on screen it takes me out of the experience. I start going, "well he can't just cut him down like Obi-Wan because that'd be a lame re-tread". I want to be in the movie, not in the meta-movie.


Anyway, the more important stuff.

First off, I thought the pacing and structure was off. I didn't like the decision to start the movie with a space battle, and having the humor in there was an odd choice too. The movie almost lost me there already. Then it cuts to Rey on the island, which felt very jarring. Maybe it had to do with my expectations, but it didn't feel like the movie was about Rey at all. Her climax in the story happens long before the climax of the movie, and she might as well not have been there for the end of it. I'm fine with her being on the Jedi island for a lot of the movie, but unlike Empire I didn't like the parallel story at all. Everything about the casino planet felt prequel-tier to me and didn't offer a single good scene. It was just boring slapstick humor (which might've ruined the tone, but I don't think there was a strong tone they were going for anyway).

Somehow the movie lacked substance. Assuming, again, that Rey is the main character in all of this, she didn't see that much character development, considering this is the 2nd of three movies. This felt more about Luke than it did her, and certainly more about Kylo, whom I don't care about when he's channeling all that infantile, Anakin-like moodiness. I also thought the dialogue for most of the movie was quite far from good, but I'm struggling to come up with an example because I hardly remember any of the dialogue. The only stuff I liked were the interactions between Rey/Kylo and Rey/Luke.

Leia flying through space is a candidate for dumbest shit in Star Wars.

Another thing I didn't like was the cinematography. TFA and RO both had problems, but visually I thought they were miles ahead of TLJ. The Falcon chase through the mines was a complete disaster visually, not to mention a formulaic re-hash, the scene in TFA was so much better and more clear it's not even funny. The stuff with the speeder things scraping the red salt felt like a very weird contrivance to having something interesting going on visually, but it didn't even look that good. The hangar escape scene on board Snoke's ship was again way too busy visually, I was wishing they'd tone that stuff down for just a second, but no. Maybe seeing BR49 ruined me. The movie is so long yet it feels like it doesn't take a second to breathe, the premise of the entire thing is supposed to be a tense situation but it is never tense. The only scene with any tension was the one in Snoke's throne room (edit: the ramming shot was good too)

Speaking of which, I thought the scene with Anakin's light saber was pretty damn symbolic regarding Rey's parentage. Maybe she is a nobody, but I doubt it.
 

Anyway, Yoda was good.

 

Honestly, I think there are more things I like about TPM than about TLJ and I don't like TPM. Maybe I'd feel differently after a re-watch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i liked it and it made me laugh, and i'll probably never watch it again.

the iron visual joke made me laugh really hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just saw it for a second time. The first time I really really liked it, but it definitely felt a little disjointed and packed to the gills with lots and lots of stuff. The second time it really held together as one focused, cohesive whole. All the themes were even clearer the second time around and I really appreciated it more. It's also probably the prettiest Star Wars movie and also very excellently shot. If you compare it to, say, a Marvel movie, the action scenes where lots of things are going on are way more readable and pretty. For instance:

 

The sequence in the hangar on Snoke's ship after it's been rammed by Holdo and everything is on fire and the Stormtroopers are fighting the BB-8T-ST and Phasma is facing off against Rose and Finn is extremely legible while at the same time having a lot of chaos. There's one particular shot where Finn is running to the left in the foreground and all sorts of shit is going on in the background and it's really masterful how well it reads and how much you can take it. 90% of the time this sort of thing in a movie is just a bunch of visual noise where you can barely pick out the hero because they're some entirely CGI body doing some wacky shit and everything is too chaotic to see anyways. But in this shot you can see everything clearly.

 

Fisher's face did not look weird to me (and this is coming from someone to whom Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher in Rogue One looked like plastic garbage robot humans who would never fool me for a millisecond) but who knows, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, TychoCelchuuu said:

The first time I really really liked it, but it definitely felt a little disjointed and packed to the gills with lots and lots of stuff. The second time it really held together as one focused, cohesive whole.

 

I'm hearing this a lot and I think it's really interesting that it's a movie that seems to work for people a lot more a second time around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this