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Twin Peaks Rewatch 50: The Return, Part 15

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On 21/08/2017 at 5:18 PM, therealdougiejones said:

bfl7talwrzgz.png

 

Sarah Palmer's face was superimposed onto the jumping man when Mr. C is in the convenience store. 

 

I noticed this too; I couldn't help frame-by-framing that bit to see what was there. Whatever it's supposed to mean, it certainly seems to suggest a clear link between Sarah and the Black Lodge, if there was any doubt.

 

Another thing I noticed a few episodes back but haven't seen anyone comment on: Anybody else wonder if the symbol of the black blob with the pointy antennae on top (As seen in Hawk's map, or on that card earlier on) is supposed to be representing the same thing as the "owl"/ring sigil used in season 2? Except the diamond shape has been replaced by a black circle.

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2 hours ago, FRENDEN said:

Wasn't he in the two part premiere? 

Yeah he appeared for like two seconds in the red room in the first episode I think. Didn't really need to be there, but I guess it was nice to at least see him.

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I just realized that Audrey probably... probably isn't in a coma.

Richard tells Coop that she's his mom, and that she told Richard about Cooper.

So that means... 

Ah, I guess I'll just wait for Sunday!

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On 8/22/2017 at 9:30 PM, Mentalgongfu said:

@Arianna

 

Thinking about your question, it occurs to me there are several sets of coordinates, and we don't for sure know which are which. The apparent timeline jumps make things a little more cumbersome to dissect.

 

The coordinates Diane sees are apparently those to Twin Peaks, since we also see her look them up. I had presumed that means they were not altered, although I don't believe we have any evidence to prove it, since Albert theoretically could still have altered the original photo to insert Twin Peaks coordinates for whatever unknown reason. I would lean toward not, but I wouldn't say for sure. I don't think we ever actually see Diane text those coordinates to anyone, but I could be forgetting. I haven't confirmed myself since I never wrote them down, but I'll assume the ones Jeffries gives are the same she sees.

 

In any case, the coordinates on Ruth Davenport's arm are also the ones Brigg's was apparently looking for, and which Hastings and Ruth brought to him. And, assuming they weren't altered, are also the ones to Twin Peaks. But like the question of why Dark Coop would need them, we also have to ask why Briggs would need them, since he would also presumably know where the Glastonbury Grove portal is (see below).

 

Then we have the coordinates Dark Coop was searching for and eventually got from Ray. I had thought those were the coordinates to The Dutchman's, but in hindsight, Dark Coop tells Ray he "knows where it is," which leads me to believe the numbers Ray gave him were for something else. That could be the Twin Peaks coordinates, or something else again.

 

Then we have the location of the zone. SInce Hastings takes the FBI there himself before his head gets popped, maybe those coordinates don't matter. It is in South Dakota, and since things are presumably heading to Washington, maybe it's irrelevant. But it is another portal location, and apparently the place where Hastings entered the portal to meet Briggs

 

We also have the location in the forest that Hawk, Andy and Truman venture to. Although the description Briggs gave them in his message was in relation to Jack Rabbit's Palace, rather than coordinates, it could be one of the locations referenced above or a separate place where such portals exist. It doesn't make sense that this is the same place Briggs was looking for from Hastings, since he clearly knows where it is well enough to direct others to it.

 

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more confusing all of it is. Every time I feel I start to grasp the distinctions, I recall something else that raises a question. Perhaps there are multiple portals in the Twin Peaks area, not just Glastonbury Grove? That would at least answer part of it.

 

I can't wait for the final Parts so we can begin further dissecting things and making sense, if any can be made, of all these intricate details. If nothing else, Lynch sure knows how to develop a sense of mystery and intrigue through the information he presents and that which he doesn't.

 

There could be multiple sets of coordinates, but just to clarify what I was saying: the numbers that KettleJeffries gives BadCoop are literally the exact (North) coordinates that are written on Ruth's arm - at least in the photo that we see. Given all the speculation about communication between Diane/Jeffries/BadCoop, and speculation about whether or not Albert photoshopped the coordinates on Ruth's arm before he showed them to Diane, I think it stands to reason that there's a connection there. 

 

The question re: these specific coordinates is - are they the real coordinates that Ruth/Bill got from Garland & were initially written on Ruth's arm? Did Jeffries get them from Diane (i.e., is that who Diane is texting) and then give them to BadCoop? Assuming Albert didn't photoshop the coordinates, either he got them from Diane via text or he independently got them from the same third party that Ruth & Bill did. If Albert DID photoshop them, then we have confirmation of Jeffries and Diane communicating. Next week can't come soon enough :) .

 

Unrelated: If Judy is Garland that is absolutely going to make my year.

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Random observation from a comment on youtube:

 

The late Mr. Todd has no legs.

 

Must be intended, too. Most scenes with him are closer in, with the desk hiding it, but there are a couple shots from farther away in prior episodes that show the same thing.

 

Edit: Or maybe not. Because we see him walk around in Part 6 when he gets the computer message that turns red.

 

mr todd has no legs twin peaks.PNG

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It looks like there's a mirror along the bottom portion of the desk. It's reflecting the chairs in front of it. 

21 minutes ago, Mentalgongfu said:

Random observation from a comment on youtube:

 

The late Mr. Todd has no legs.

 

Must be intended, too. Most scenes with him are closer in, with the desk hiding it, but there are a couple shots from farther away in prior episodes that show the same thing.

 

Edit: Or maybe not. Because we see him walk around in Part 6 when he gets the computer message that turns red.

 

mr todd has no legs twin peaks.PNG

 

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Definitely odd, but I'd chalk it up to nit-picky aesthetic revisions of set pieces, which is a thing Lynch is known for.  As in, maybe he just didn't like the way the bottom half of the desk looked and wanted it to "disappear."

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4 hours ago, Crunchnoisy said:

I just realized that Audrey probably... probably isn't in a coma.

Richard tells Coop that she's his mom, and that she told Richard about Cooper.

So that means... 

Ah, I guess I'll just wait for Sunday!

 

Not quite. Richard says that he'd seen a picture of him, in a photo that his mother had. He knows he's FBI and his name is Cooper, but anyone related to Audrey or the investigation at large could have told him that if he asked who was in that picture as a kid, having never seen him before in person.

 

There's no dialogue saying she told him these things, the vagueness seemed deliberate.


And aside from her scenes with Charlie, the number one indication that something ain't right in Audrey land is from back when Richard went on his murdering rampage. The sheriff went to Ben Horne to drop that info, the grandfather and not the kid's own mother. Even though apparently she is in Twin Peaks and desperately wanting to go to the Roadhouse. Maybe we didn't see that scene and they were just trying to play coy with who his parents were all along, I can't say. I am still on the coma side of things at the moment, but who knows?

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1 minute ago, pyide said:

 

Not quite. Richard says that he'd seen a picture of him, in a photo that his mother had. He knows he's FBI and his name is Cooper, but anyone related to Audrey or the investigation at large could have told him that if he asked who was in that picture as a kid, having never seen him before in person.

 

There's no dialogue saying she told him these things, the vagueness seemed deliberate.

 

It's true that it is left vague. I just can't get on board with the Audrey-in-a-coma scenario. It seems too derivative for this season to me. And most of the arguments for the theory point to a coma as the "only explanation" all the weirdness in her (surprisingly) few scenes, as if weirdness and oddities weren't the backdrop of nearly everything in Twin Peaks. Obviously, I may have to eat my words depending on what reveal may be coming in the remaining 3 hours, but I continue to think there is some other explanation, though I don't have a great alternative to offer.

 

To argue against myself for a moment, there are a lot of references to dreams, including the actual episode title last week. Even though I think some of the titles are just throwaways to appease Showtime so they have something to list, I can't dismiss Gordon Cole's dream in which he gets a message from Monica Belluci about dreams and dreamers. Anything coming from Gordon at this point is important unless it's just a joke that doesn't translate into French. So maybe Audrey is the dreamer. Or one of them. But I will be beyond disappointed if the big conclusion is something akin to the Wizard of Oz "it was just a dream" ending. Lynch would have to do something amazing with it to make it at all satisfying to me at least.  I don't think that's what we're going to get, but there are enough signs pointing that way I'm actually a little worried. Then again, I never really did figure out Lost Highway, so either way, I expect the conclusion of Lynch's 18-hour Twin Peaks movie will leave plenty of room for rewatches and interpretations.

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2 hours ago, pyide said:

 

Not quite. Richard says that he'd seen a picture of him, in a photo that his mother had. He knows he's FBI and his name is Cooper, but anyone related to Audrey or the investigation at large could have told him that if he asked who was in that picture as a kid, having never seen him before in person.

 

There's no dialogue saying she told him these things, the vagueness seemed deliberate.


And aside from her scenes with Charlie, the number one indication that something ain't right in Audrey land is from back when Richard went on his murdering rampage. The sheriff went to Ben Horne to drop that info, the grandfather and not the kid's own mother. Even though apparently she is in Twin Peaks and desperately wanting to go to the Roadhouse. Maybe we didn't see that scene and they were just trying to play coy with who his parents were all along, I can't say. I am still on the coma side of things at the moment, but who knows?

 

Good catch.  I was going off memory, and the vagueness is totally intended.  I'm back on the coma train!

 

Even though 25 years in a coma is a hideous, rare, but not impossible thing.  But hey, the Hornes could afford it.

 

Or is she in a different lodge??? The BROWN lodge.

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Hi I haven't really been watching the show but I've been monitoring all the spoilers and theories and I have to toss this amazing theory into the mix about Audrey's mysterious plot. Nor have I been monitoring the threads on this forum so I dunno if this has been reported. My apologies for that oversight.

 

Spoiler

Audrey is magically encased in wood somewhere. Probably at the Roadhouse. Either a table, the bar itself, or the floor. This would explain "ghostwood," why that floor sweeping scene goes on forever, and some other stuff. "Around the diner table the conversation is lively"! I saw this on the /r/twinpeaks subreddit. I love this  theory. 

 

Edit: here's the thread where I saw this idea

 

Edited by plasticflesh
added link to where I saw this idea

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Truman goes to Ben and not Audrey, but Ben also says Richard "never had a father" and doesn't mention his mother, so I'm left to assume Audrey had some sort of presence in his life. I guess it's possible that Ben is such a chauvinist that he wouldn't think not having a mentally present mom was a big deal, but that would be counter to most of the rational/empathetic people on earth, among whom I think we're supposed to count Ben Horne despite his mostly being evil in Season 1.  I do think there's some credence to Audrey not being well, or considered a viable adult to talk to for some reason. Maybe it's a coma, but maybe she's just generally inaccessible. Maybe she doesn't live, technically, in Twin Peaks, so Truman can't just pop on over to her weird No Exit house. 

 

Weird thing about this place to me is that there is no contemporary technology to be seen. All the guy's work is on paper, and all the decor is really old. 

 

I kind of half-expect Charlie to blip out electric-Mr.-C-and-Woodsman-on-the-stairs style as Audrey is choking him. Cut to Audrey wearing a VR helmet and strangling a Teddy Ruxpin in a basement.  No wonder Richard is so messed up!

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I really liked the ideas Jake and Chris were trying to describe about how the sense of scale has changed, how the woods around Twin Peaks seem bigger, the Road House seems bigger, etc.

 

The moment that really captured that feeling for me was when we first see the other side of the Sheriff's office where the dispatcher and the other deputies sit.  At first I had this shocked feeling of, "What?!  Is this new? Was it here the whole time and we never saw it before?" 

 

But what it really reminded me of was the feeling of going back to the town where I grew up after being away for several years.  Everything seems familiar and then suddenly there's a new gas station on the corner or houses where there used to be a cornfield or the high school has a whole new wing on it.  The juxtaposition of "Nothing has changed" with Lucy and "Everything has changed!" with the dispatcher's office feels really potent to me and like something I've definitely felt before.

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25 minutes ago, The Great Went said:

I kind of half-expect Charlie to blip out electric-Mr.-C-and-Woodsman-on-the-stairs style as Audrey is choking him. Cut to Audrey wearing a VR helmet and strangling a Teddy Ruxpin in a basement.  No wonder Richard is so messed up!

 

Hello, Audrey, put your coat on!

Hello, Audrey, put your coat on!

Hello, Audrey, put your coat on!

twin peaks bear.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Mentalgongfu said:

 

Hello, Audrey, put your coat on!

Hello, Audrey, put your coat on!

Hello, Audrey, put your coat on!

twin peaks bear.jpg

 

PLEASE PLEASE let this be the answer. 

 

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11 hours ago, plasticflesh said:

Hi I haven't really been watching the show but I've been monitoring all the spoilers and theories and I have to toss this amazing theory into the mix about Audrey's mysterious plot. Nor have I been monitoring the threads on this forum so I dunno if this has been reported. My apologies for that oversight.

 

  Hide contents

Audrey is magically encased in wood somewhere. Probably at the Roadhouse. Either a table, the bar itself, or the floor. This would explain "ghostwood," why that floor sweeping scene goes on forever, and some other stuff. "Around the diner table the conversation is lively"! I saw this on the /r/twinpeaks subreddit. I love this  theory. 

 

Edit: here's the thread where I saw this idea

 

 

I love that this guy came up with this theory and wrote it out while he was plastered.

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Here is something I don't think I've seen or heard anyone mention.  IIRC, back in Part 3, when Coop was in the station on the purple sea, with Naido, the electrical panel he eventually got sucked into at first had the number "15" prominently in the middle.  But then, right before he got sucked in (leaving his shoes), and out the other side in place of Dougie into the "real world," the panel had changed to displaying the number "3".  Of course, that turned out to be Episode (or Part) 3 when Cooper emerged into the regular world.  I have wondered if the 15-to-3 had anything to do with a link from Part 15 to Part 3 of the show.  Of course, we now know that at the end of Part 15, Coop awakened to the mention of Gordon Cole and stuck his fork in the outlet.  I don't know where I'm going with this exactly, just seemed like maybe back in Part 3, Coop was already up to Part 15 in the timeline, but then got sent back to Part 3 in the timeline, where he has been in his Dougie-like stasis until he "caught up" to where he had been with Naido.  Just a theory - not sure what it means exactly.....

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Hey, quick question not related to Twin Peaks but rather David Lynch.

 

So, at some point Chris mentioned all the cool stuff on the Inland Empire DVD.

 

Long story short, I bought Inland Empire on Blu-Ray as part of a boxed set on Amazon that also included Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway. I thought it was odd that this was the only way to buy it on Blu-Ray but I didn't know much about it. 

 

What I didn't realize until it was too late was that the boxed set was from Germany (though you can select English in the menus and be fine watching/listening to it) and that Inland Empire was filmed on SD video so a Blu-Ray is kind of pointless (I'm honestly not sure if it's upscaled to 1080p or not or if it's a film transfer or what)

 

So I figure buy Inland Empire again on DVD to get the extras, since this Blu-Ray only had the movie.

 

Thing is there's a ton of DVD's listed for this movie. The way Amazon works there's like four different versions listed and one version is like $89 and the cheap one is an Italian import


If I want the extras Chris Remo was referring to a few episodes back, anyone know which version to buy?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Inland-Empire-Laura-Dern/dp/B000QQFKYE/
https://www.amazon.com/Inland-Empire-Trouble-NON-USA-Kingdom/dp/B01GWDIXXY/
https://www.amazon.com/Inland-Empire-Trouble-NON-USA-Kingdom/dp/B000UYBP28/
https://www.amazon.com/inland-empire-limpero-della-Italian/dp/B00HYI5H3Q/
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/dvd-inland-empire-laura-dern/9784547?ean=0858334001145
https://www.hpb.com/products/inland-empire-858334001145

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47 minutes ago, wbarnes4393 said:

Here is something I don't think I've seen or heard anyone mention.  IIRC, back in Part 3, when Coop was in the station on the purple sea, with Naido, the electrical panel he eventually got sucked into at first had the number "15" prominently in the middle.  But then, right before he got sucked in (leaving his shoes), and out the other side in place of Dougie into the "real world," the panel had changed to displaying the number "3".  Of course, that turned out to be Episode (or Part) 3 when Cooper emerged into the regular world.  I have wondered if the 15-to-3 had anything to do with a link from Part 15 to Part 3 of the show.  Of course, we now know that at the end of Part 15, Coop awakened to the mention of Gordon Cole and stuck his fork in the outlet.  I don't know where I'm going with this exactly, just seemed like maybe back in Part 3, Coop was already up to Part 15 in the timeline, but then got sent back to Part 3 in the timeline, where he has been in his Dougie-like stasis until he "caught up" to where he had been with Naido.  Just a theory - not sure what it means exactly.....

 

Worlds within worlds within worlds. David Lynch is the quizat haderach.

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1 hour ago, Guts said:

 

Worlds within worlds within worlds. David Lynch is the quizat haderach.

 

Well, that is a better explanation than my "15-3" explanation.  which was:

  • He was supposed to go through the 15 outlet (3pm in military time) and become good coop (a federal government employee... government/military handwavey-close-enough thing here)
  • Naido tricked him into space and threw the switch.
  • It changed into a "3" outlet (3pm in civilian time) so he got sucked out as civvie Dougie.

I'm having a lot of fun watching.  But every time I try to connect the dots, I end up creating a Rodkin-style riff.  I have a feeling that we'll all be happy with the ending, but the answers will not be clear or complete.  I can't believe it's almost over.

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2 hours ago, wbarnes4393 said:

I have wondered if the 15-to-3 had anything to do with a link from Part 15 to Part 3 of the show.  

 

The problem I see with this theory is that I can't imagine for a second that when they filmed the show they would have had any idea what specific episode each scene would slot into when they edited it all. Also, since it's designed to be one long film it seems unlikely they would tie clues into episode numbers.

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On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 2:23 AM, Scylo said:

I loved everything about this episode. After just binge watching The Defenders recently, I can't help but see Freddy as Iron Fist in Twin Peaks .

I thought the same thing!

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