Jake

Twin Peaks Rewatch 46: The Return, Part 11

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8 hours ago, BizzyDQ said:

That being said, the woman honking the horn in the car outside the Double R was incredibly off putting to me and not in the way that was intended.

 

I sort of feel the same way.  It was subverted, but not quite the way that I think was intended.  I think the intent was supposed to be rolling our eyes at this hysterical woman until suddenly OH GOD SHE HAS A REAL REASON TO BE SO FRANTIC!  But my actual reaction was rolling my eyes at David Lynch and thinking, Really? Are we supposed to be laughing at this woman for being crazy and self-absorbed and how she looks OH GOD IT'S NOT COMEDY IT'S HORROR EW DON'T LOOK IS IT OVER YET NO IT'S NOT MAKE IT STOP

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Is it too much to ask for the hosts of a podcast about a tv show to get details about the show they're doing a podcast about right?

 

Gretchen Hayward? Not knowing that the same deputy was in two scenes you're talking about? I'm less than 9 minutes into the episode and you're already screwing things up I noticed in one watching where I was looking at my phone half the time. 

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5 minutes ago, fellintooblivion said:

Is it too much to ask for the hosts of a podcast about a tv show to get details about the show they're doing a podcast about right?

 

Gretchen Hayward? Not knowing that the same deputy was in two scenes you're talking about? I'm less than 9 minutes into the episode and you're already screwing things up I noticed in one watching where I was looking at my phone half the time. 

 

You seem like a really positive person who is fun to be around. You must have a lot of friends.

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When Chris and Jake were talking about Hawk's relationship with the Log Lady, I was thinking that it doesn't seem so much that Hawk takes her seriously because he believes in crazy supernatural Twin Peaks stuff but rather because he has a relationship with Margaret and he respects her.  And in fact one of the things I've always liked about Twin Peaks was how the sometimes oddly-causal way people would entertain supernatural ideas seemed rooted not so much in being blasé about the bizarre as in an attitude of respect, a habit of believing people and taking them seriously unless you have a good reason not to.

But then I think of Special Agent Dale Cooper, and it's like he has a special gift for inspiring that kind of respect. No matter what crazy thing he says or does (I'm looking at you, Tibetan Rock Throwing) people go along with it, not because it seems normal, but because obviously this guy knows what he's doing.


Which brings us to Dougie. Is the way everyone reacts to his odd behavior any different from the way they've always treated Special Agent Dale Cooper?  People were occasionally puzzled by Cooper, but no matter what he did, they pretty much just went along with it, shrugging their shoulders with an air of, Well, I guess this is normal?

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7 minutes ago, fellintooblivion said:

Is it too much to ask for the hosts of a podcast about a tv show to get details about the show they're doing a podcast about right?

 

Gretchen Hayward? Not knowing that the same deputy was in two scenes you're talking about? I'm less than 9 minutes into the episode and you're already screwing things up I noticed in one watching where I was looking at my phone half the time. 

 

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Did I understand Hawk to say that his map is some kind of magic that changes and keeps it up to date with what's really out there?  If so, maybe his refusal to talk about the black spot makes sense if he's seeing it there for the first time and he's quietly completely freaked out about it and the horrors it implies.  Even so, it seemed like Truman reaction to all the stuff Hawk was saying should be, "So, what?  You're saying we definitely should not go out there?"

 

And like others, I'm growing impatient with watching Sheriff Truman sit around talking about this stuff while Richard is running around on a deadly crime spree.  I keep wanting ??? to appear to him in a vision and say, "It. Is. Happening. Again."

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1 hour ago, Owl said:

I thought it was deliberate too, but I think they're playing Monkey in the Middle (apparently more commonly called Keep Away).

 

We always called it "Piggy in the Middle."  For whatever reason, I've always really enjoyed the slight regional differences in the names of kid's games. But, deliberate or not, I didn't notice the middle kid until the one kid saw the body and it cut back to the other two. It was confusing to the point that I thought something had been edited out of order and I restarted the episode to try and make sense of it. It's the only thing in the show so far that has made me immediately go back. But maybe this was just my band-aid moment of the episode....

 

I feel like I found the vomiting child to be far more viscerally unpleasant than everyone else. It was more stomach churning  for me than anything else we've seen so far. It looked like the kid was going to choke and die on their own vomit, and nothing was being done about it. I was not okay with it. I also didn't like the rambling woman as she just felt like another repeat of the woman who found Ruth's body, Truman's wife, etc. I've grown tired of Lynch's hysterical woman caricatures.

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Anyone else feel like Belushi's happy dance with the check was much more of a "We got away with it! We're rich!" than a "They're covering our catastrophic loss after all! We're not ruined!"

 

 

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I think the weirdest thing in the whole episode is Diane's insane comment in the police station.

 

They're out in the middle of nowhere. Nobody around. Suddenly Hastings is violently killed. What happened? Who did that? Did anyone see what happened? Everyone fan out and look around! Is there someone else here? (At lease I assume they made some attempt after the scene ended to figure out what happened?)

 

Hours later, back at the police station, Diane says.  "Oh yeah, I think I saw someone get out of the police car."

What?!  How is that possibly an acceptable thing to say at that point?  Why isn't anyone demanding to know why she didn't mention that earlier?  Even if Gordon, Albert, and Tammy are being extremely cagey about Diane and assuming the murder was inexplicably supernatural, surely the local cop would have exploded with outraged incomprehension at her dropping this bomb?

 

The only sense I can make of it is that maybe people aren't seeing the dirty hobos as clearly as we are?  Or maybe they're incapable of remembering them?  So maybe Diane didn't actually see the hobo creeping up to the car the way we did, but rather just had some uncanny feeling of some kind of presence that she didn't credit until she heard other people talking about seeing glimpses of hobos?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Urthman said:

The only sense I can make of it is that maybe people aren't seeing the dirty hobos as clearly as we are?  Or maybe they're incapable of remembering them?  So maybe Diane didn't actually see the hobo creeping up to the car the way we did, but rather just had some uncanny feeling of some kind of presence that she didn't credit until she heard other people talking about seeing glimpses of hobos?

 

 

This was my interpretation of it as well. The way Gordon and Albert were talking about it sounded like they didn't quite understand what they were seeing either. A man faded into nonexistence in front of them and their reaction was "I think I saw somebody".

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Maybe I'm alone on this but I feel the hysterical woman thing has only become cheap when it's been tied into the plot directly. I felt totally comfortable with Truman's wife being as she was with no explanation at all, existing only as a nightmarish exaggeration of an already absurd fictional trope who just heaps outrageous amounts of emotional aggression at him for no good reason at all. As soon as it became grounded in the son's passing away by suicide and all that....eh. I think Lynch's extreme and unusual manner of presenting melodrama or hysterical behavior in such a way as though a figure from a dream suddenly enters your world then I'm usually very interested. The more realized these types of characters become the more I see it as a cheap and lazy decision on how to treat a character rather than what I think it can be which is absurdist tragicomedy or horror done at it's best (at least aesthetically). 

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Great episode. For me the whole sequence with bobby in the RR was dynamite. I love all the instances of familial cycles repeating themselves. It adds more weight to the theory that bad coop is Richard Hornes father. I'm a little uncomfortable with that, but it fits into the narrative nicely.

 

I'm a little confused though. Do shaking hands when you come in contact with one of the portals/lodges have anything to do with the ring? I'm hazy on what the ring signifies, but I thought it had something to do with entering the lodge. Do your hands shake if you arnt wearing it?

 

I remember Dougies arm went numb before he got pulled into the lodge, but he was wearing the ring right? 

 

The portal scene lacked punch for me, as everyone took all the weirdness in their stride. Diane was so calm when she watched the woodsmen crawl up to the car. She acted like someone who felt no personal danger in the really scary scenario. Nor did Albert or Cole. The cop was the only character who reacted in a way I could understand, which is why his line hit so well I think.

 

Lastly, I want some progress on why Dougies engagement ring was in Major Briggs stomach. I assumed it was a clue on how Bad Coop has manufactured these bodies, but now I think that's the real Major Briggs, I don't see how they relate.... Maybe it's an attempted frame by Bad Coop?

 

As others have mentioned, the editing is so odd, and I'm not yet sure it adds much to the atmosphere. It feels more like a logistical decision rather than an artistic one. It's certainly a style of editing and shooting that would appeal to someone would likes to think of film making in terms of scenes and layered textures.

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3 hours ago, fellintooblivion said:

Is it too much to ask for the hosts of a podcast about a tv show to get details about the show they're doing a podcast about right?

 

Gretchen Hayward? Not knowing that the same deputy was in two scenes you're talking about? I'm less than 9 minutes into the episode and you're already screwing things up I noticed in one watching where I was looking at my phone half the time. 

 

And you've been hate-watching the show for a whole month, since Part 8. Every post of yours since then has been either complaining about how bad the show is, or being confrontational to people here.

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You guys talk about the future Missing Pieces for Dougie's Mitchum Brothers Gym Set conversation, but the scene I want to see is Dougie somehow ordering a cherry pie in a giant box. Did he have a Mr Jackpot moment where there was a glowing light over the cherry pie or did he just Magoo his way towards it (and the huge box) with his boss and some poor barista. I have to know!

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10 hours ago, fellintooblivion said:

Is it too much to ask for the hosts of a podcast about a tv show to get details about the show they're doing a podcast about right?

 

Gretchen Hayward? Not knowing that the same deputy was in two scenes you're talking about? I'm less than 9 minutes into the episode and you're already screwing things up I noticed in one watching where I was looking at my phone half the time. 

 

Please start your own podcast or at least stop listening to ours if you don't like it.

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1 hour ago, Professor Video Games said:

the scene I want to see is Dougie somehow ordering a cherry pie in a giant box. Did he have a Mr Jackpot moment where there was a glowing light over the cherry pie or did he just Magoo his way towards it (and the huge box) with his boss and some poor barista. I have to know!

 

"That lady said her husband was going to come by and pick this up.  Could you please box it up for me?"
"We're all out of pie boxes. Did she already pay for it?"
"Yeah, it's ready to go. Just use one of the big ones."
"Oh, hey, are you here for the pie?"
"here for pie"

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3 hours ago, Professor Video Games said:

You guys talk about the future Missing Pieces for Dougie's Mitchum Brothers Gym Set conversation, but the scene I want to see is Dougie somehow ordering a cherry pie in a giant box. Did he have a Mr Jackpot moment where there was a glowing light over the cherry pie or did he just Magoo his way towards it (and the huge box) with his boss and some poor barista. I have to know!

I wondered the same thing.  It sometimes seems like Dougie has more to say when he's off camera.  How did the sex happen, how did the Mitchum brothers get to gym set.  Is he dressing himself now?  Is he choosing that suit?  Does he know how to get to the bathroom by himself now and eat?  

 

The podcast mentioned the strangeness of giving a 30 million dollar check to him, but everyone seems to be fine with him the way he is.  I have real trouble believing the Mitchum brothers would want to have a meal with him in that condition or take such pleasure in his company.  How did he order the food?  How long did these epsodes last for the original Dougie, why was he taken to the doctor to check his heart and weight?  It seems like they would have some course of action, or more tests if this wasn't a first time happening.  Dougie is so confusing on so many levels.  I don't understand how he fits in the universe, why people react the way they do to him, why he gets no help, why he's constantly forced into work, if he has moments of clarity we don't see, how he perceives what's going on around him.  

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4 hours ago, Professor Video Games said:

You guys talk about the future Missing Pieces for Dougie's Mitchum Brothers Gym Set conversation, but the scene I want to see is Dougie somehow ordering a cherry pie in a giant box. Did he have a Mr Jackpot moment where there was a glowing light over the cherry pie or did he just Magoo his way towards it (and the huge box) with his boss and some poor barista. I have to know!

 

Mullins was following Dougie into the shop . I just assumed he saw Dougie staring at the cherry pie and the conversation went similar to what @Urthman said.

 

Mullins: Are you thinking we should buy them that pie?

Dougie: Buy them that pie.

Mullins: That's a great idea Dougie. You're a class act!

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14 hours ago, Urthman said:

The only sense I can make of it is that maybe people aren't seeing the dirty hobos as clearly as we are?  Or maybe they're incapable of remembering them?  So maybe Diane didn't actually see the hobo creeping up to the car the way we did, but rather just had some uncanny feeling of some kind of presence that she didn't credit until she heard other people talking about seeing glimpses of hobos?

 

 

This seems to be the case. I think when they were questioning Bill in the back of the car about what he had seen, he couldn't remember.

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I'm a little confused on the Mitchum payout logistics (though maybe that's okay/intended). Did Sizemore screw them and was trying to pin it on Dooper? Or did pre-Cooper Dougie screw them and Dooper had to deal w/ that fallout? Or Sizemore was legitimately helping them and Dooper's green-light-aided drawings helped screw them? None of the above?

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I've been (probably over)thinking about the use of straight-up Raisin Bran Crunch in the breakfast scene from this episode. For some reason, that one cereal box has really heightened the show-within-a-show vibe I've been getting from the Mitchums and a lot of the rest of the Vegas characters; like a frameless "Invitation to Love." It stuck out to me so much that it felt like a commentary on product placement in prime time TV, or possibly a device to tell us something about the space the Mitchums inhabit versus the rest of the Twin Peaksiverse.

 

For comparison, I went back and scanned through the first pancake breakfast scene with Dougie, Janey-E, and Sonny Jim. Here, I believe all the logos for the flour, juice, and other food items are either turned away from the camera or otherwise inscrutable.

 

Is this anything? Has there been any other prominent use of a real-world food or other product in the show to this point (original run/FWWM/return) that I'm forgetting?

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21 minutes ago, marblize said:

I'm a little confused on the Mitchum payout logistics (though maybe that's okay/intended). Did Sizemore screw them and was trying to pin it on Dooper? Or did pre-Cooper Dougie screw them and Dooper had to deal w/ that fallout? Or Sizemore was legitimately helping them and Dooper's green-light-aided drawings helped screw them? None of the above?

It seems to me that Dougie had nothing to do with the 30 million dollar claim until he identified Sizemore as a liar. I'm not sure that the rest of the details really matter other than knowing the Mitchums got screwed out of their payment. It doesn't even really matter if they should have rightfully gotten the payment or not though it is sort of implied that Dougie helped find the correct answer to that question and that was paying out that claim. Everyone trying to kill Dougie seems to have reasons beyond the 30 million payout. I could be wrong but I'm guessing we never find out because it really isn't important. 

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