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Twin Peaks Rewatch 46: The Return, Part 11

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16 hours ago, Ford said:

The show is just a collection of oddly and frustratingly  paced vignettes featuring a few characters we know acting in incoherent ways. Sure, some of the scenes taken in bits are unsetteling or humorous, but  as a whole they are unsatisfying.

 

I like Twin Peaks for two reasons. One is that, in its odd way, it adds up to a fascinating if uneven whole. But the other, and the primary attraction to me going in, is that it features oddly and frustratingly paced vignettes that are unsettling and humorous: in other words it provides a framework for Lynch to do his thing. If that's all The Return ends up being, I'll still be glad it exists. Film/television can be narrative among other things, but the actual content is the sensation it imparts moment to moment and those experiences are valuable on their own terms regardless of how they "add up."

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15 hours ago, fellintooblivion said:

This series needed an editor and it needed someone with the balls to tell Lynch he was only getting 9 hours. 

 

 

Lynch made it abundantly clear in April 2015 that the series was going to exist on his terms or not at all. Wanting a Lynch-directed Twin Peaks which is also designed more to your liking is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. We don't have to accept The Return without criticism, but we do have to accept that it's this or nothing.

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11 hours ago, Existing user? said:

Joanna Robinson on the Peaks TV podcast said that every part is a differently balanced cocktail. Like, they shot all these various scenes, and then assembled them into these uniquely constituted one hour blocks. Each part is a different combination of the ingredients they shot, mingling and merging and balancing the neighboring scenes with a mixologist's logic. Just thought that was a really apt description. 

 

I really like this thought because for all the "18-hour movie arbitrarily chopped into 1-hour blocks" talk, each episode seems to me to have a distinct feel, even as it also doesn't quite feel like it was constructed from the ground up as, you know, an episode. Of course some of the mixes are stronger than others.

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10 hours ago, UnpopularTrousers said:

It reminded me of the first half of Mulholland Drive where Naomi Watts shows up in Hollywood and everything feels like a wide-eyed hopeful dream.

 

 

Great comparison. I've been saying for a while that there were a lot of similarities between the Dougie storyline and Mulholland Drive (at one point even humoring the idea that his world was some kind of dream/alternate reality though that's long past by now). But I think this was the first episode where the *mood* felt similar (except perhaps for the stuff with the statue in its own way) - from the "Viva Las Vegas" ride down the Strip to the closing credits, Vegas gets treated here with a kind of wistful, melancholy romanticism as Hollywood in Mulholland Drive. Though Lynch's Vegas hasn't yet captured, or shown interest in capturing, the ominous darkness underpinning of Lynch's Hollywood.

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Just wanted to point out a couple of cool cast interviews. A podcast with Matthew Lillard went up today on a show called "The Watch" which is part of The Ringer podcast network (owned by Bill Simmons, famous sports columnist/personality). Very revealing about Lynch's process making this new season.

 

Also this interview with Amy Shiels who plays Candie - http://www.vulture.com/2017/07/twin-peaks-amy-shiels-on-her-tragic-backstory-for-candie.html

 

Amy Shiels on Candie's background - "I feel in my backstory that the brothers are actually saving her. She just loves them and appreciates everything in the world. That’s why I love Candie and adore and cherish her so much — it’s because she really sees everything through new eyes and has been through something so traumatic in her past, so absolutely hideous, that now that she’s been saved by these boys, she loves them and she sees everything and appreciates it all. Everyone takes air-conditioning for granted; it’s just everywhere. But no, not to Candie. It’s probably the first time she’s had air-conditioning in her life. It’s amazing. Everything is so good. She loves her bosses, and that’s why she was so traumatized, because they were so good to her and she hurt him so badly. Especially when she saw the blood the second time, that was tragic. His face — what has she done to her savior? She’s just a wonderfully kind and appreciative person who really feels people’s joys and pains and emotions. She’s adorable and loves everyone."

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45 minutes ago, LostInTheMovies said:

Great comparison. I've been saying for a while that there were a lot of similarities between the Dougie storyline and Mulholland Drive (at one point even humoring the idea that his world was some kind of dream/alternate reality though that's long past by now). But I think this was the first episode where the *mood* felt similar (except perhaps for the stuff with the statue in its own way) - from the "Viva Las Vegas" ride down the Strip to the closing credits, Vegas gets treated here with a kind of wistful, melancholy romanticism as Hollywood in Mulholland Drive. Though Lynch's Vegas hasn't yet captured, or shown interest in capturing, the ominous darkness underpinning of Lynch's Hollywood.

In Mulholland Drive the imagined romantic Hollywood was a projection of Naomi Watts's internal reality, and thus there was a separate and distinct external reality for Lynch to show us in the second half of the film. In Twin Peaks The Return, I don't think it makes sense for the wistful romantic reality we are shown to be a representation of any one character's hopes and dreams. Dougie and Cooper certainly wouldn't want this bumbling comatose life for themselves. Yet in Mulholland Drive logic, the old lady from the casino thanking Mr. Jackpot for changing her life seems like it absolutely would a projection of Dougie or Cooper's inner delusions. It feels *so* much like Lynch directing a dream sequence, but there is no character who could be having the dream.

 

So maybe we need to look at dream logic outside of the characters within the show. Maybe it's the wish fulfillment of the viewer/American people who thoughtlessly bumble through life, yet still expect to one day stumble upon a fortune and be the hero of everyone around them? Maybe the show is the first half of Mulholland Drive, and the second half is merely reality? Do we need to be shown the gulf between these things in order to understand it? 

 

Or maybe Audrey is still in a coma and the whole show is her dream. Holy shit that would be terrible. 

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8 minutes ago, UnpopularTrousers said:

maybe Audrey is still in a coma and the whole show is her dream. Holy shit that would be terrible. 

 

I saw a theory on reddit that:

 

Spoiler

it's all cooper's dream, a battle of sorts for his soul as he's lying on the floor dying in S2E1, and honestly I could see that working in a non-linear time way rather than a literal 'it's a dream' way, but it'd be so gut-wrenching. 

 

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4 minutes ago, marblize said:

 

I saw a theory on reddit that:

 

  Hide contents

it's all cooper's dream, a battle of sorts for his soul as he's lying on the floor dying in S2E1, and honestly I could see that working in a non-linear time way rather than a literal 'it's a dream' way, but it'd be so gut-wrenching. 

 

If by 'gut-wrenching' they mean 'the stupidest shit ever', then I mostly agree. 

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17 minutes ago, marblize said:

 

I saw a theory on reddit that:

 

  Hide contents

it's all cooper's dream, a battle of sorts for his soul as he's lying on the floor dying in S2E1, and honestly I could see that working in a non-linear time way rather than a literal 'it's a dream' way, but it'd be so gut-wrenching. 

 

I really, REALLY don't think this is the case. I doubt Lynch would go back to this well again. And Frost doesn't seem like the kind of writer who is interested in that type of story. He's obsessed with bringing the pieces together, even if it means some forced connections.

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1 hour ago, UnpopularTrousers said:

If by 'gut-wrenching' they mean 'the stupidest shit ever', then I mostly agree. 

 

It's certainly a dumb theory but I think it could be pulled off if there's some time fuckery rather than some Rosanne shit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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17 minutes ago, marblize said:

 

It's certainly a dumb theory but I think it could be pulled off if there's some time fuckery rather than some Rosanne shit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

It would be horribly disappointing. While Lynch certainly doesn't seem to base his decisions solely on audience desires, I know he is better than this. Frankly, I think all of the dream/alternate reality theories that posit much or all we are seeing is a fantasy are just lack of imagination. A lot of commenters seem unable to accept the idea that someone like Dougie could exist without everyone around him freaking out, so they fall back to the tired "it's not real" trope. While some of the obliviousness of characters around Dougie pushes the limits of believability, a dreamworld is the easy way out. Not only do I think it's a horrible idea from a writing standpoint, there is no evidence for it other than people saying, ""This isn't how normal people would act."

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On 7/23/2017 at 11:58 PM, richardco said:

 

I also lost my shit when, after studying Hastings's blown apart head, Gordon announces, "He's dead."

 

My shit was also 100% lost at that.

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5 minutes ago, Nelsormensch said:

 

My shit was also 100% lost at that.

Yup!  His delivery was really excellent.

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12 hours ago, marblize said:

 

I thought it was that the cop was at Big Ed's when he heard the RR shots fired.

 

Yes, I don't know if it was ever stated, but I got the impression in the original series that the Gas Farm is within walking distance of the Double R.

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48 minutes ago, Mentalgongfu said:

Frankly, I think all of the dream/alternate reality theories that posit much or all we are seeing is a fantasy are just lack of imagination. A lot of commenters seem unable to accept the idea that someone like Dougie could exist without everyone around him freaking out, so they fall back to the tired "it's not real" trope. While some of the obliviousness of characters around Dougie pushes the limits of believability, a dreamworld is the easy way out. Not only do I think it's a horrible idea from a writing standpoint, there is no evidence for it other than people saying, ""This isn't how normal people would act."

 

That's why I'm saying I wouldn't buy it at all if it were simply a fully fantasy Rosanne dreamland - there are way too many details happening that have nothing to do with Cooper. But I think it could be taken an interesting direction if all the stuff we're seeing happen was somehow still literally happening on top of the aforementioned.

 

Again I'm not rly buying it regardless, it was just a reddit post that scared me, lol.

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The discussion about 'how' you should watch the series interests me. I feel like the canvas for this particular series should be as big possible because there are so many details to enjoy in the frame. And, as noted before, Lynch's darkness in the woods (and other locations) is actually dark, and sequences like those in the h-bomb episode would have been a nightmare (for me) to watch on a phone. I'd love to see that on a massive screen. Streaming it on a 32" TV felt like I was missing things and several times through the series I've had to skip back to see something more clearly.

 

I'm watching suboptimally on a stream but I'm excited to rewatch on bluray.

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Yah, am looking forward to a rewatch down the track without the blocky artefacts in large patches of darkness (like that in the woods as you mention).

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Can I just say - as an emetophobe, this season has been a test and a nightmare, lol. 

 

Its quite amazing what happens to all these children in the towns of Twin Peaks.  They are ran over and killed, exposed to bloody crawling bodies while they innocently play, become zombified vomiting messes, shoot bullets into populated diners.  Seemingly causing mass panic, anxiety and dumbfounded-ness for the adults around them.

 

I'm just thankful for any scene that includes the Mitchum brothers and the Sheriff's department at this point.

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7 hours ago, LostInTheMovies said:

 

Lynch made it abundantly clear in April 2015 that the series was going to exist on his terms or not at all. Wanting a Lynch-directed Twin Peaks which is also designed more to your liking is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. We don't have to accept The Return without criticism, but we do have to accept that it's this or nothing.

 

You have a real knack for spouting cliches and meaningless drivel. Most of your posts could just be a copy/paste of "It is what it is."

 

It's real easy for Lynch to say it was this or nothing when he got what he wanted, of course it completely ignores the fact that no one else was willing to give him money. It was this or nothing for his career and Showtime blinked first. 

 

 

 

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I find LostInTheMovies's posts very informative and fascinating to read, because he's so well read on the series and Lynch's work as a whole and reveals information and speculation that I would've never known otherwise as a casual viewer.

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10 hours ago, LostInTheMovies said:

 Film/television can be narrative among other things, but the actual content is the sensation it imparts moment to moment and those experiences are valuable on their own terms regardless of how they "add up."

 

Actually, unless I'm misreading your statement,  that's not the content, it's the experience of the content. The artifact is the show. My experience is the reaction, either good, bad or indifferent. And sure there can be "value" in what is presented. That value can be that the show has illuminated that despite what I previously thought, I'm coming to realize I don't care for Lynch in complete control. Value also doesn't necessarily equate to a satisfying Twin Peaks experience which for me, to this point, it has not been. 

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2 hours ago, fellintooblivion said:

 

You have a real knack for spouting cliches and meaningless drivel. Most of your posts could just be a copy/paste of "It is what it is.

 

You don't like the show, that's fine, but there's no need to be rude about it.

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10 hours ago, BonusWavePilot said:

 

This is something that annoys me disproportionately...  I had an ex with whom I had this argument, as she had an infuriatingly precise ability to jump up to go grab a drink, or do whatever, when we were watching something at *exactly the worst moment*.  

 

LOL. I thought it was just me. My wife is a master at this and it drives me up a wall. 

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