Jake

Twin Peaks Rewatch 42: The Return, Part 8

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Well...

 

Looking forward to seeing how the podcast treats this 'un.

 

I'm also not a great fan of an expansion into epic good vs evil, but I think it's also a bit soon to tell if that is where we're headed.  Maybe Experiment/Mother was a being who usually absorbed garmonbozia from Earth but the amount accumulated from a nuke was too much all in one go?

 

Not sure the 'sending to Earth' sequence needs to be an 'aliens' thing exactly: the golden blob gets sent to Earth more through a process that looks like magic, rather than being fired from a spacecraft or something: it is all very abstract - could also represent beings from another dimension, or some kind of afterlife, or any "other place" really. 

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37 minutes ago, BonusWavePilot said:

Not sure the 'sending to Earth' sequence needs to be an 'aliens' thing exactly: the golden blob gets sent to Earth more through a process that looks like magic, rather than being fired from a spacecraft or something: it is all very abstract - could also represent beings from another dimension, or some kind of afterlife, or any "other place" really. 


Yeah, that place seemed to similar to the one Cooper landed in before he transferred back to the real world in part 3, with the endless sea below. The weird bell shaped devices around the giant guy were very similar to the one on top of that room / box where the space face of Briggs floated near. I take it as another place or alternate dimension, whatever you want to call it. Also, some of those images from inside the nuke looked exactly like the non-exist-ent void Cooper floated through for a while on his way back to reality, which makes me think that stuff could be the tear between these places, perhaps ripped open by the nuke? Now it seems to me that the arm's doppelganger sent Cooper into nothing originally, but perhaps the giant saw this go down, fished him out of that and guided Cooper back to his domain.

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I think this bit from the ending of Secret History of Twin Peaks perfectly encapsulates how Frost thinks of the cosmic or whatever you want to call it aspects of the show. Seem's pretty relevant to this episode and the discussion in this thread. It's part of Milford's final letter to Major Briggs.

 

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And don't believe anyone who tells you this all began in Roswell in '47. I'm convinced now that whatever I've glimpsed or encountered and spent my life tracking has been with us since humankind came down out of the trees. It is not something "out there" -- in the president's words. They may well have once been our "neighbors" from some distant star, but I believe they were here before us. I believe that were we able to look deeply at the whole of human history we would see that they have always been here. I believe they have observed, helped, haunted, tormented, and teased us since the beginning of time for reasons entirely their own. I believe that they are a multitude, and that their true nature is singular and energetic, not physical, evolved in some way light-years beyond our ability to understand, and as a consequence our limited, linear sense of time means nothing to them. A few of us were chosen, for some strange purpose, to learn more about them. Or perhaps for other reasons.

 

I believe their presence fills more than the skies or these woods; they lie at the root cause of every extranormal or paranormal experience our species has recorded: religious, spiritual, scientific, ghostly, inspiration, angelic and demonic. From the burning bush to Fatima and Lourdes, to "vampires" and sky people, monsters and abductions in the night and Roswell and Homestead and all those strange lights and crafts seen for millennia by so many of us in so many skies. I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy any minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others", and were we ever able to set our eyes on its ultimate nature we would find it as foreign, incomprehensible and indifferent to us as ours would be to bacterial microbes swimming in a drop of water.

 

These final truths you must never forget: we are utterly incapable of knowing their true intent, and their true intent may not be to wish us well. It may be that they're here to guide or even aid our evolution; it's equally possibly we may matter no more to them than those random protozoa in our tap water do to us. In other words, by our meager moral defintions, there may be both "good" and "evil", and those precious distinctions of ours mean nothing to them. There may even be a "good" and "evil" side at play there, and we the human race, is the game.

 

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I relay an observation from my wife:

 

I was originally interpreting the giant's scene as feeling like a low-budget student arthouse project film; but she pointed out that it actually very specifically feels like an _old_ film. The costuming, the makeup, the set design, the pacing, everything.

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1 minute ago, anderbubble said:

I relay an observation from my wife:

 

I was originally interpreting the giant's scene as feeling like a low-budget student arthouse project film; but she pointed out that it actually very specifically feels like an _old_ film. The costuming, the makeup, the set design, the pacing, everything.

 

Totally!  Like silent-film era sci-fi!

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Just now, BonusWavePilot said:

Totally!  Like silent-film era sci-fi!

It's for sure very Méliès. 

 

There were also a couple moments where the images associatively morphed into one another that made me think of Bunuel's un chien andalou. Specifically the bomb into Bob orb reminded me of the armpit hair into sea anemone in Bunuel's film. Granted, we see something similar in the opening of every episode with the waterfall into red curtains, but I think it being in black and white cast my mind back.

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Recently discovered this podcast and wanted to share my thoughts on last night's episode.

The girl who swallows the frogbug is Sarah Palmer. According to wiki Sarah was born the same year as the White Sands bomb test, perhaps children of the atom make excellent hosts.

The frogbug isn't BOB, or MIKE for that matter, but some sort of mechanism for BOB to fully possess people.

The Giant creates the Laura orb and sends it to Leland Palmer in Twin Peaks as a means of countering and preventing BOB's influence.

BOB meets a young Leland who allows him to possess him rather than BOB possessing by force since Leland doesn't have a frogbug. BOB inhabits Leland and notices the Laura orb essence and gets a taste for her. His biggest challenge, to possess his opposite.

When Leland and Sarah have sex, the Laura orb is transferred to Sarah, and the frogbug can't coexist with the orb so it flees Sarah. The frogbug moves to Leland, making him possessable without invitation.

Sarah, having been exposed to the frogbug for so long, is able to see BOB as the frogbug made her body attuned to the spirit world.

BOB is unable to just give Laura a bug because the Giant's orb is part of her and protects her so he begins a campaign to break her spirit and the Giant's protection to a point where possession will be possible.

Somehow the Laura orb was split in two and we got Laura and Maddy which weakened the orb's power, and is why BOB was able to kill them both, and why both Laura and Maddy could see BOB.

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Making this season 18 hours was the dumbest decision the person who made that decision ever made. Everything that happened in this episode could have been condensed into 30 minutes. Every week Lynch continues to prove why the people at ABC were correct in not giving him total creative control. It's now clear that whatever Lynch is making here he is making for himself. This is masturbation pure and simple. 

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30 minutes ago, str said:

The girl who swallows the frogbug is Sarah Palmer. According to wiki Sarah was born the same year as the White Sands bomb test, perhaps children of the atom make excellent hosts.

 

There is no way that girl is 11 years old.  She's around 15, which ought to be obvious from the fact that her parents are allowing her to be out with a boy at night.  Also, the chances that girl survived to adulthood are exceptionally slim.  The whole segment was a Lynchian take on the classic 1950's Atomic Horror film, and my guess is that the only person who made it out alive is the boy, as he's the only character we see who wasn't within range of a radio during the Woodsman's broadcast.

 

Also, everything I can find on wikia about Sarah Palmer suggests she was born and raised in Washington state, not Arizona.

 

12 minutes ago, fellintooblivion said:

It's now clear that whatever Lynch is making here he is making for himself. This is masturbation pure and simple. 

 

Congratulations, you have just discovered the difference between art and entertainment.

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I want people to make things for themselves. I love when creators go up their own ass and write completely to their own sensibilities without any constraints. The popular sentiment these days is that the best work is made under creative constrains, but I'd rather see the unfiltered product.

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(new to the forums hi) I thought this episode was brilliant and beautiful even if it's a jarring change from the previous ones. This episode specifically cements my belief that twin peaks is a huge allegory, drawing on western mysticism/ceremonial magic. Most obviously, the Woodsman looks like he's covered in tar, he's painted that much darker than the other characters. He and the other dark figures represent the shadow of normal people, an embodiment of their worse traits that they ignore or bottle up, just like the Black Lodge doubles are the shadows of specific people. This concept is also referenced in the Woodsman's poem, "the white of the eye and the darkness within." 

 

I also thought this episode specifically had a lot of social commentary. It seems like the dark figures looking like hobos is drawing on and criticizing many people's distrust/fear/suspicion of homeless people. The bomb detonation was obvious. I believe Lodge beings manipulating technology is an extension of that moral the bomb gives, demonstrating how technology can be used to hurt others in a very tangible way. The Lodge's connection to electricity, the "mother" being a mannequin on a cg gradient background, both point away from the Lodge being any sort of natural, even if alien, phenomenon. The Lodge (and by extension the evil of mankind) are monsters of our own making.

 

Lastly, what if the Lodge was created to punish humankind for the bomb (etc) instead of hurting people because it feels like it? What if they aren't evil, they're just doing what they were made for?

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Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that everyone here is wrong and our brains will be caught off guard again in two weeks?

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2 minutes ago, brandons said:

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that everyone here is wrong and our brains will be caught off guard again in two weeks?

Almost like that happens every week with this show. Weird!

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On the podcast you have talked about deliberate use of "crappy" effects. It stood out to me in this episode with the huge contrast between the effects used in Bad Cooper's resurrection sequence (with the men superimposed over him) and the much more expensive rest of the episode. I wonder if this was intentionally contrasting the powers of the Black Lodge when manifesting in the "real" world versus the more spectacular manifestation in unreality. Put another way, in the "real" world, special effects are a poor imitation of the platonic ideal.

 

1 hour ago, brandons said:

I need to hear the voices of Chris and Jake.

I imagine they'll need a little more time than usual to gather their thoughts together but also to figure out how to describe what was happening on the screen so they can even comprehensibly talk about it.

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4 hours ago, anderbubble said:

I relay an observation from my wife:

 

I was originally interpreting the giant's scene as feeling like a low-budget student arthouse project film; but she pointed out that it actually very specifically feels like an _old_ film. The costuming, the makeup, the set design, the pacing, everything.

Yeah, that's kind of part of what u was trying to get at when I was babbling on about Lynch embracing different eras of filmmaking   "technology". I guess technology was too narrow a term. Technique, perhaps? Aesthetic? The point is that he takes his obvious interest in the form of motion pictures, and incorporates that as a kind of mythic force. 

 

It reminds me a bit of Peter Greenaway, who comes from a fine art background. His films are obsessively concerned with form, to the point of sometimes feeling quite alienating. I suppose it's only a selective sample of two, but perhaps there's something about a painter's training that leads them to bring the form to the forefront like that. I don't suppose that's much of a groundbreaking insight.

 

1 hour ago, Paul Smith said:

On the podcast you have talked about deliberate use of "crappy" effects. It stood out to me in this episode with the huge contrast between the effects used in Bad Cooper's resurrection sequence (with the men superimposed over him) and the much more expensive rest of the episode. I wonder if this was intentionally contrasting the powers of the Black Lodge when manifesting in the "real" world versus the more spectacular manifestation in unreality. Put another way, in the "real" world, special effects are a poor imitation of the platonic ideal.

I was kind of toying with the idea that the wonky 2D compositing effects were the Black Lodge kind of intruding in our world in an incomplete way, where the more convincing ones were either the Black Lodge itself, where there is no intrusion, or when something from the Lodge is more concretely inhabiting our world. 

 

I don't know, though. I'm increasingly wary of trying to pin down anything definitively like that. Perhaps it's just down to whether or not Lynch thinks it matters whether it looks "real". 

 

EDIT: Oh, and thank you @Gailbraithe for the firearms insight. There's still the matter of when the guy (Ray? I'm so terrible with character names...) had the chance to tamper with it, but I guess you can assume there was some kind of stop earlier. I don't know. Or maybe Jeffries somehow planted it for him and communicated that fact. Who knows. The point is that it's conceivable that even hyper-competent Doppeldale would be caught out by it.

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On 6/25/2017 at 10:41 PM, Gailbraithe said:

Oh, and my least favorite thing about this episode:  Now I have to sit through two more weeks of people speculating that Evil Cooper raped Diane and Audrey.  Was really, really hoping for a development that would quash that, no such luck.

Do you mind if I ask you why you feel that way? Just curious. I've heard a similar sentiment expressed by others including by the hosts of the Idle Thumbs Twin Peaks Rewatch, and I'm not sure I understand.

I mean, I definitely understand the desire to not see bad things happen to beloved characters. But I also recognize that the show is inherently about that. Maddy being murdered being a prime example. But at the same time, that episode and particularly that scene was one of my favorite parts of season 2. That whole sequence with her and Leland and those weird spotlight shots of BOB. As horrifying as that was, and how much I was like "No! Not Maddy TOO!" That whole thing really sticks in my head as one of the most disturbing and yet captivating parts of that season. 

I think of an Evil Cooper running around doing terrible unspeakable things (especially as the Doppleganger of Cooper, one of the most kind-hearted and likeable, gentle people on the show) as such a punch to the gut. Audrey, who was in love with Coop must feel such a betrayal if she knows, not to mention the pure rotten nature of Richard if he is in fact her son. As terrible as it is, it's pure Twin Peaks horribleness. It doesn't seem too out of place in a universe where Laura Palmer's own father was possessed and made to do terrible things to his own daughter at the hands of BOB. BOB is pure evil, and doing that to Audrey and Diane (both characters who probably thought of Coop as perfect and flawless in every way) is similar to a girl who finds out her own father was raping her. It's like Evil Coop know Good Coop so well that he knows the exact and perfect way to twist the knife and ruin his reputation forever. The fact that he specifically picked those two people to victimize says a lot about his evil, and also how well he must know the real Coop. Besides Annie, Coop would probably feel the most protective about those two women in particular.

Anyways, that turned out longer than I thought, but I look forward to your response! Cheers!

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On 2017-6-26 at 5:30 AM, Gailbraithe said:

I have a feeling we just watched Gordon Cole's origin story.  I definitely think the Boy (1956) is Gordon.

 

Is it me, or did the diner where the waitress was listening to the radio show look like the RR diner (aka Railroad diner at the time)?  At first I assumed that meant the young couple were residents of Twin Peaks, so I didn't think of Gordon Cole. But that frog/fairy/cicada landed in new Mexico desert, right?  So I could be wrong.

 

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5 hours ago, Gailbraithe said:

Congratulations, you have just discovered the difference between art and entertainment.

 

Oh please. That's as pretentious as Sunday's show. 

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1 hour ago, Yuecake said:

 

Is it me, or did the diner where the waitress was listening to the radio show look like the RR diner (aka Railroad diner at the time)?  At first I assumed that meant the young couple were residents of Twin Peaks, so I didn't think of Gordon Cole. But that frog/fairy/cicada landed in new Mexico desert, right?  So I could be wrong.

 

 

When I saw the diner, I thought it looked exactly like the diner in Fire Walk with Me, where Chet and Sam (? - Kiefer Sutherland's character) have a scene.  I think Sam spills his coffee or something? I was sure of it, in fact.  Except you're right - that should have been near Twin Peaks, or Deer Meadow nearby.  But what about the convenience store?? Shouldn't that be in Twin Peaks, also?  Hmmmmmm.......

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25 minutes ago, wbarnes4393 said:

 But what about the convenience store?? Shouldn't that be in Twin Peaks, also?  Hmmmmmm.......

 

Ah yes! Well, apparently the convenience store is ambiguous in location. Also, this convenience store/petrol station didn't appear to have a second floor.  I feel like this is purposefully ambiguous.  Some have said that this town could be one of those mock, pop-up towns for nuclear testing facilities, like this: https://roadtrippers.com/stories/the-government-nuked-the-crap-out-of-the-fake-1950s-town

 

Quote

Survival Town had two double story buildings, three single story structures, an electrical transformer station, a radio station, a propane tank filling station, a weigh station, plus assorted cars and trailer homes

 

Could the bomb have something to do with the burnt look of the woodsmen?

Something tells me I'm gonna have to rewatch the episode.

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The more I think about this episode, I realize that I liked pretty much everything...

 

... except the pervasive evidence that Twin Peaks is being reduced to Good-vs-Evil.  Everybody on this thread saying "it's too early to judge if it's going that way" are behaving like Star Wars Prequel apologists... you KNOW what you're looking at.  Stop trying to wiggle around it.

 

 The Frost Giant has turned into a Palmer Orb of Golden Goodness!

 

Sigh.

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On 26/06/2017 at 4:12 AM, FRENDEN said:

I think that's what I like about it -- it's a total exposition dump from Frost told through the visual language of Lynch. It feels wholly collaborative. That people can see it either way is a victory IMO.

If you're going to do plot exposition then Part 8 is how to do it!

 

From the hypnotic opening of the lights on the dark winding road with the droning audio this episode was mesmeric. As the scene with Mr Cooper and Ray came to an end I found myself thinking, "How are they going to follow that? Is Dougie going to stand around with a coffee cup? Oh, the Nine Inch Nails! I'm not going to get out of this so easily, am I?" The hypnotic, dynamic cameras have been some of my favourite parts of Series 3 so far: the cameras and the dude staring at the box and the box staring back at the dude, the pan to the creepy thing in the jail cell, Dougie's run of luck in the casino. I held out no expectations of Series 3 before it aired but I have to say that reserving watching the episodes for the hours after midnight and waiting to be in the mood for Twin Peaks, allowing it to fill that dream space when I'm a little bit too tired and should really have gone to bed already, has been richly rewarding in general and Part 8 was a real payoff.

 

The work put in by Ruth De Jong in Production Design, Cara Browner for Art Direction, Peter Deming in Cinematography and Duwayne Dunham's editing here are phenomenal. So much of these techniques are rarely seen to such effect in film, let alone TV, with the likes the 2001 and A Clockwork Orange coming to mind. The place - that I like to call Silent-Cinema-on-Sea is like something from Jules Verne. I love it. The confusing, mesmeric nature of Part 8 also made me think of Adam Curtis' Bitter Lake, a documentary I watched at a similar time of the morning and managed to inhabit that dream space just as well... actually now I've gone back to look at it Bitter Lake (link below for anyone interested) also starts with dash cam footage and then indistinct figures performing an odd movement all accompanied by droning music and the line, "Increasingly we live in a world where nothing makes any sense." How appropriate that is for Twin Peaks now, a place that in exposing its workings, seems to have less coherence!

 

A consideration on Silent-Cinema-on-Sea: is this the same "Non Existent" place that Agent Cooper was sent to? In the time that Agent Cooper was there with the No-eyed Woman things seemed much less coherent (until the No-eyed Woman's sacrifice) and much more terrifying, with the banging at the door and the skipping time line. Did something bad happen to Silent-Cinema-on-Sea? Is it in fact the White Lodge? Whatever is happening, it appears that there is a full Civil War raging between the doppelgangers. Either way, I'm happy to let Lynch and Frost take me on that journey as I think it's going to keep paying off.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Crunchnoisy said:

The more I think about this episode, I realize that I liked pretty much everything...

 

... except the pervasive evidence that Twin Peaks is being reduced to Good-vs-Evil.  Everybody on this thread saying "it's too early to judge if it's going that way" are behaving like Star Wars Prequel apologists... you KNOW what you're looking at.  Stop trying to wiggle around it.

 

 The Frost Giant has turned into a Palmer Orb of Golden Goodness!

 

Sigh.

 

I know what I'm looking at? This is Twin Peaks, man.

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