Rob Zacny

Episode 393: Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III

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Three Moves Ahead 393:

Three Moves Ahead 393


Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III
Rob, Fraser, and guest Ian Williams pick up their chainswords and head to the far-flung future to play Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III. The original Dawn of War remains a favorite of the panel, and Dawn of War II had its charm. Does Dawn of War pull the series back into greatness? Well, that entirely depends on how you feel about Lords Managements. And multiplayer. Because if you don't like those things, you may be left in the cold, unfeeling void of space.

Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III

 

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I sympathize with Ian's distaste for advancing metaplots in games, a la the World of Darkness's Apocalypse. It can feel like the writers are trying to invalidate or supercede the way your group has developed the world. A lot of games start out with a deliberate sense of mystery, encouraging players to make it their own, and then the pressure to sell more books crushes the life out of the setting.

 

Of course, it's easy enough to ignore that stuff and incorporate the bits you like, but you can run into people in the hobby who feel like it's all required. And jesus forbid you participate in any kind of sanctioned, organized play.

 

That tangent aside, I appreciated everyone's thoughts on Dawn of War 3! I have to admit that I'm one of the people who's disappointed in the selection of factions; it's not that I have a particular attachment to one that isn't represented, but that I'm a little burned out on Marines and Orks because of their ubiquity in other electronic games. I'd love to see them dig a little deeper. 

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Full disclosure: I only made it about 15 minutes into this episode before I arrived at work but I look forward to hearing the rest this afternoon.

 

I've been following DOW3 quite closely for a long time and I am absolutely thrilled with how it turned out. The campaign is pretty bland but it does serve as a decent intro to faction mechanics. It's also a good way to level up some of the elite units. 

 

It's still early on in this game's lifecycle but so far I think it's future looks bright. I was worried after the beta when I saw the DOW forum and subreddit filled with posts of "How do I win with faction X" or "Faction X can't beat Faction Y" but when I looked closer those posts were generally even for all factions. People were complaining that they couldn't win with eldar or space marines or orks in pretty equal volume. Personally, I have only played about 20 1v1 matches since launch and so far I have been able to counter quite effectively depending on what my opponent decides to field. Sure, sometimes I get steamrolled but that's just how it goes.

 

I think the inclusion of Lords Management-Lite elements gives the game focus and allows for really good back and forth. It's possible to destroy shield generators quite easily with tier 0 or tier 1 units if your opponent isn't on their game but you'll need to tech up a bit before taking on the turrets. On the other hand if your opponent is getting ahead of you on map control sacrificing a few line units by assaulting their shield generator or harassing their back line resource points can buy you the needed time to come back and remain competitive. Hopefully they add some more maps and game modes as time goes on.

 

I haven't tried 2v2 or 3v3 yet because I generally don't like being yelled at by randoms online when I make a mistake,  Hopefully I will dip my toes in soon.

 

Anyways, I look forward to hearing the rest of this episode and keep up the good work!

 

 

 

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Just a small correction, the expansion for DoW I which add campaign ala total war, I think it was was Dark Crusade, Soulstorm was the last one and often seen as the worst, since mostly was handed to a other team do it (the guys behind Titan Quest, if memory didn´t fail me).

 

This game is kind tearing me apart, I still can´t figure what to think about - I played during the open beta, everything works fine, but something still don´t click with me, and I can´t figure what is, if it was having multiplayer as first contact experience or else. The only issue I can point, but keep in mind that I did played only during the open beta,  is how easily units die once the make contact, is make really difficult to use them, since they appear to melt away. Even the heroes die very fast and trying move the away felt strange, because, it almost appear they don´t really move away.

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On 5/5/2017 at 11:00 PM, Valorian Endymion said:

Just a small correction, the expansion for DoW I which add campaign ala total war, I think it was was Dark Crusade, Soulstorm was the last one and often seen as the worst, since mostly was handed to a other team do it (the guys behind Titan Quest, if memory didn´t fail me).

 

That's right. Dark Crusade had the campaign map on a single planet, and is often considered the best. Soulstorm was on several planets and, as you say, not well regarded. Although the Sisters of Battle were introduced in Soulstorm though, and they're pretty bad ass.

 

As for the evolution of Dawn of War, I've enjoyed both previous games for what they are, although the original is my favourite. I've been quite excited about DoW3, as it's seemed like a return to the series roots, but as someone who plays mostly campaigns I'm hesitant to pick it up right now, I'll probably hold out for an expansion with a decent campaign, or maybe just a lower price. And while it's not surprising they didn't have Tau or Necrons as launch factions they need to do a better job of introducing new factions this time around, whether through expansions or individual DLC.

 

I know a lot of people who prefer DoW2, and every time an RTS game comes out that doesn't play like it they complain. Even about Starcraft 2. Which struck me as weird, if you don't like RTS' there are plenty of games that aren't.

 

More than anything else, I think it's telling that this episode has me itching to reinstall Dark Crusade and Soulstorm and play those again.

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I was very interested in the general discussion about meta-plots, and progressions in game worlds for strategy games. (And the associated 40k bits also). I'd love to hear more about that at some stage.

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On 5/9/2017 at 0:14 AM, Qarl said:

I was very interested in the general discussion about meta-plots, and progressions in game worlds for strategy games. (And the associated 40k bits also). I'd love to hear more about that at some stage.

 

There's definitely a good chat about strategy storytelling waiting to be had. Maybe we'll do something like that in the near future!

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I have really enjoyed the DoW3 campaign with all the usual 40k pseudo serious stuff it brings with it. Though on several occasions it reminded me how much I missed the DoW2 campaign. Real Time Tactics always felt like the most fitting way to describe it.

 

Not to derail this topic (sorry if I do) but are any of you aware of games that are similar to the DoW2 campaign? Smaller small scope but similar verbs of interaction as an RTS. Lords Management games not withstanding.

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9 hours ago, Quak0r said:

 

Not to derail this topic (sorry if I do) but are any of you aware of games that are similar to the DoW2 campaign? Smaller small scope but similar verbs of interaction as an RTS. Lords Management games not withstanding.

This is maybe a bit of a stretch, but the first things that pop into my mind are Syndicate and Commandos. At a basic level, they both involve selecting small groups of people and ordering them around, without any base building or anything.

 

I suppose I should also throw in Sattelite Reign. And for something fast and silly, Cannon Fodder.

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On 12.5.2017 at 6:13 AM, Salacious Snake said:

This is maybe a bit of a stretch, but the first things that pop into my mind are Syndicate and Commandos.

 

Oh man! I totally forgot about the Commandos, Desperados and Shadow Tactics of the world! I'll definitely have a look at Sattelite Reign!

 

At first sight the verbs seem to be a little different then what I liked specifically about DoW2 campaign but it's worth a try ^^

Thank you!

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