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Stranger Things

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Just finished season 2, and I enjoyed it a lot more than the first. I think it's because it feels like it's built up its own mythology now and is working off that, rather than just copy-pasting a bunch of concepts and story beats together. It still references a ton of stuff but it doesn't straight up rip it off (well, a lot less anyway!). There are some different issues (season spoilers -

once 011 comes into play there's not really any threat left, and the season cliffhanger was weak

), and it is still very tropey (though I find this much more palatable than copy-pasting), but overall it's a lot stronger. I think I could recommend the series as a whole now, with the proviso of the first season's lack of identity.

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I agree with your words if not exactly your sentiment.  I didn't find the nostalgia detracting in Season 1, in fact I felt it added to the show in clever ways.  Season 2 has even less but I feel like it was utilized better as well.  And none of it felt especially fan servicy to me, rather it seemed to be very appropriate given the setting.  Once again I found the kids to be the highlights of the season, except for possibly

 

Spoiler

Eleven.  Acting wise she was great as usual but I feel like her side journey to find her "sister" didn't amount to anything.  That whole episode was the low point of the season for me.  She went away and learned some stuff about her past, which is great, but in terms of the story and her character nothing was really changed by all of this.  Hopefully it will be of some consequence in the next season.

 

I was also really sad to see Bob die.  I was sympathetic of Barb but we saw so little of her that I had a hard time really feeling for her death the same way I did with Bob.  His death was so obviously telegraphed and straight out of a trope handbook but it was still a bummer.

 

I didn't see the last scene as a "cliffhanger" per se.  I know they're planning two more seasons at least but I feel like this could have been seen as a proper ending rather than a teaser.  The first season ending had obviously implications with Will vomiting up Dart but this time around I just saw it as a reminder that the mind flayer is still out there so you better watch out!

 

Overall I thought it was a great improvement over the already good first season.  Looking forward to more.

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Just to clarify, it wasn't 'nostalgia' that I didn't like about the show. As I said after watching the first season, "Stranger Things is well-made and pretty enjoyable but it really is a collection of tropes and 80s references (which I'm kind of over now) to the point where it does nothing original or unpredictable."

 

Re. your spoilers:

 

I enjoyed that Chicago episode, probably for the fact that it hit all the 'temptation to the dark side' beats then got outta there. Re. the last scene, I guess you're right. I think I would have preferred it if they just hadn't done that in that case, though, and stuck with the happy ending. We hardly needed a reminder, having seen El' close the mind flayer behind a gate 5 minutes earlier.

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I agree that the series has found it's identity now and practically everything else you said, Ben. It definitely doesn't feel like it's copying specific movies this time, but yes it is full of tropes. And this time it also felt more coherent. About the first season I said that it felt like different genres depending on who's perspective we were seeing. I didn't specifically pay attention to that with season 2, but I got the feeling that it had a more unified style for all perspectives this time.

 

 

About the Chicago episode - I liked it, but it did feel like a distraction from the season. Almost as if the sole purpose was 1) to make El look the part of the bad-ass battle mage she is in the final and 2) to set up some things for season 3 (I assume, otherwise it seems even more of a waste).

I felt sad for Bob a long time before he became demodog bait, it was just too obvious that he'd be the one that gets killed, as were the consequences of his advice to Will.

 

It was kind of refreshing to see the doctor to turn out to be not such a bad guy after all.

 

 

I loved the use of lighting, and I think Mario Bava would have approved of the cinematography in this show. Although maybe the influences can't be traced back to him directly, I did draw some comparisons especially with the colored lighting, after seeing a lot of Bava movies in the past two months.

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Spoiler

On it's own I don't dislike the Chicago parts, just in the context of the series it felt so very out of place.  It just seemed very odd that she went on this entire journey that no one (even Hop) knows about and the only real consequence was she got a new look.  I feel like her using the "training" with Kali during the final push to close the gate wasn't really needed and was only there as a justification for making that trip.  I might change my mind later down the line when the setup pays off but for right now I think if I skipped that entire episode I would have missed nothing apart from wondering when she went punk.

 

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I laughed out loud when Hop said, 

 

"looking like some... MTV punk!"

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I also just finished season 2. I was really worried after the first episode, and while the show eventually righted itself and was generally enjoyable, I think the second season is starting to highlight a lot of the limitations of the show's writing. Some of the choices actively ruined what would have otherwise been a fun follow up to a fun first season.

 

Spoiler

I know that it's common to knock on this show for its nostalgia, so I'll limit my complaint to the "stay frosty" line at the end of episode six. I can forgive a lot of the references, but to have a character quote a line from a movie that won't even be out for another two years (Aliens was released in 1986) was a bridge too far for me. That's why the references starting pulling you directly out of the show, because you know it's just the writings thinking it'd be cool to quote that line and that's about it.

 

But really, what killed this season for me was Eleven's animosity towards Max. I was already a little iffy on Max as the new "I'm not like those other girls" girl, but the fact that El had to hate her for intruding on her Tinker Bell and the Lost Boys set up was unforgivable. I could maybe see El's initial anger as more of a general frustration; Max can hang out with friends while El is stuck in her cabin prison. But the show never reconciles the two girls. The only other interaction they have together is another heated one, where El rebuffs Max's offer of friendship. It's such an unbelievable choice and really sad, because you know that El could use some more female bonding.

 

I found it almost as much unbelievable that Mike hated Max for as long as he did (also never really resolved in the show). As with El, the initial anger at Max makes sense, but after awhile, it just makes Mike come across as a real jerk for no reason to his friends. Especially since Finn Wolfhard spends so much of the season separated from Lucas and Dustin (maybe filming for IT limited his availability?) he comes across as not really caring about them.

 

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Yeah, hopefully two of those things will be sorted out immediately in, or even by the start of, season 3:

 

 

 


El's jealousy seemed pretty Mike-specific (and also could be seen as part of her lack of social training/experience as well as her dalliance with the dark side), and Mike's hostility seemed to stem from resenting a potential El-replacement while he was still grieving. Hopefully El will see that Make (that's the best 'shipping compound I can do) is not a thing and also maybe learn a new rule like "friends aren't dicks to each other over boys", and Mike will snap out of it now he knows El is alive.
 

 

 

That doesn't change the fact that they went there in this season, but at least they didn't dedicate too much time to it, I guess. Maybe if the characters redeem themselves enough it will feel more like Lucas' initial distrust of El in season 1, just stretched over a season break.

 

Re. the writers (not the character - I don't think this was an anachronism) straight up quoting another movie's dialogue, I didn't find that any more distracting than the teacher's minute-long monologue to his date (and practically straight through the fourth wall) about why John Carpenter's The Thing is awesome, in season 1...

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17 hours ago, Ben X said:

Re. the writers (not the character - I don't think this was an anachronism) straight up quoting another movie's dialogue, I didn't find that any more distracting than the teacher's minute-long monologue to his date (and practically straight through the fourth wall) about why John Carpenter's The Thing is awesome, in season 1...

 

Its a little more dumb in this case since the character is quoting a movie that, in the show's timeline, hasn't come out yet. (I don't think that character is written or performed like they know they're quoting a movie, either, which makes it more forgivable for me if still a little dumb. It feels in line with the Jurassic Park power-on sequence later in the season - as an audience we know exactly what we're looking at and know that it's from a movie ten years later, but the characters have no idea they're inside of that.)

 

Both seasons of Stranger Things I ended up liking and watching for the characters and their quirky human moments as they bounce off each other, while being frustrated by the pastiche filled plotting. The characters deserve a better plot than the one they're in. I agree that season two has a bit more of its own voice than season one, but I think that also means you notice it more when it falls into a reference hole.

The JP power-on sequence, the ET-like symbiotic relationship, the space marines tricked in the Aliens caves. It also bummed me out when the show tried to escape this and go off on its own weird vector to Chicago and suddenly, without its Spielberg/King tether, lost all sense of style/cinematography/momentum.

I was glad they challenged themselves to try something different, but most of those new characters felt totally flat, the world felt fake and unbelievable, even the look of the show (which is otherwise beautifully and precisely shot in my opinion) took a hit, their attempt at wet neon 80s coming across more like a Netflix Marvel show than something genuinely of that time like The Warriors or The Lost Boys. 

 

Ultimately I had a fun weekend watching the show, and liked it more than season one, but it had most all of the same shortcomings and that (coupled with my suspicion that we'll see more of those flat Chicago characters) makes me less excited for the third season.

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I know that some people actively hate episode 7 and while I didn't loathe it, I find it more revealing of the writings flaws. It's like they wanted an Empire Strike Backs Jedi-training sequence, but failed to articulate all the emotion and drama that came from Luke and Yoda's relationship. No one was surprised at the resolution to that episode, which is probably why it feels like a slog for so many people. "We're here to steal from the millionaire war criminals!"

 

Spoilers for ep 7:

Spoiler

They try to tie this back in by having El close the gate by channeling her rage like Kali taught her, which seems like the exact opposite lesson that little girl should learn. Maybe that's set up for future seasons where El's anger becomes too great and needs to be dealt with, but since the show doesn't in any way indicate that El is falling to a dangerous dark side (her bitchin' makeover is not enough to indicate whether what's happening to her is good or bad), I don't have a lot of faith in that direction.

 

I'm super disappointed in how El in general was handled this season, but the show has never really cared about her as a character really. Same goes for Max when it's revealed that her tragic backstory is

Spoiler

divorce! And her step-brother is abusive! But twist, so is the step-dad!!! And this resolves....to nothing? Talk about bloat, that whole subplot was annoying and didn't pay off at all. Glad we wasted a lot of screen time building up that conflict for it to end with yet another display of violence as a form of domination. Good lesson, TV show.

 

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Yeah, I agree with all of this, though the Aliens thing doesn't bug (lol) me any more than the fact that Stand By Me wasn't out yet either. I feel like in Season 3 they're going to try even more to do stuff in their own voice and it will either make or break the show.

 

The other problem with this show is you never know whether they're referencing or ripping off, especially when they leave the 80s - I'm not sure about where the JP thing falls. The bit in Argo's first spoiler was very close to a scene/thread in X-Men First Class..!

 

Btw @Jake, it seems like we're still doing spoiler tags in this thread and I'd say the middle of your middle paragraph is on the edge...

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I feel pretty much the same way as argobot about El.  As for Max though,

 

Spoiler

I also agree that having an abusive family is not only a cliche but also fairly pointless in the season, although watching her confront her brother at the end was pretty great.  The one part I felt it worked was the party trying to bring her in (at least Lucas and Dustin, Mike clearly didn't want her and Will seemed indifferent).  A person in her situation could very easily have turned on them hard like everyone else but she went fairly out of her way to hang with them, get involved in something way over her head, and stick with it despite not knowing most of the parties involved.  I found it interesting that she wasn't the one jealous of El.  I hope something comes of that next season.

 

Did anyone watch Beyond Stranger Things, the round table discussion with the cast and crew?  It's also on Netflix and gives a bit of insight into what some of their intentions were.

 

Also I want to note that the mobile game was updated as promised with some additional quests, a new dungeon, and a new character.  I won't even bother to spoil that but I can't help but wonder if the way said character is portrayed in the game has significance.

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I watched a bit of Beyond Stranger Things, but it was low on trivia/tidbits, and high on precocious child actors/show-runners.

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There's nothing especially revelatory in it.  They do say some stuff that backs up what I said about the ending though, namely that

 

Spoiler

it's not necessarily meant to be a teaser or cliffhanger, more of a reminder that while they "won" the shadow monster is still out there and it's now aware of Eleven and her powers and the threat she represents to it.

 

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With regards to

Spoiler

'stay frosty' my understanding is that the term predates Aliens, although probably not in pop culture. And of course given the scene, it is a direct reference. It's a bit silly scene, but I have no issue with the reference.

 

In general I don't think much of season 2. I did like season 1 a lot, but I think the second season feels very formulaic and soapy. I guess it is intentional, but at the same time I think the season lacks dramatic tension. The feel is far more of action, compared to the horror of the first one. The story feels very fractured, with too many characters doing too many things in too many places. I didn't feel like the 'party' was together in this one, and as such I think a lot of the charm of the first season was lost. All in all I watched it, and I don't dislike it, but I really struggle to care, or respect it.

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I mean, "Stay Frosty" is obviously a reference to the pioneering 3D cartoon Reboot, as it is the main character Bob's catchphrase.

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Alright so

Spoiler

 

Did anyone else think Bob was an evil scientist at first? When he weirdly decides to tell Will to confront the evil and that info turns Will into a host. I definitely thought that this was on purpose and the DoE was trying to expand testing of the Upside Down stuff on the public. 

 

Obviously it turns out to be totally bunk, but that was a weird 2-3 episode 'Evil Bob' arc for my wife and I

 

 

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37 minutes ago, unimural said:

 

The story feels very fractured, with too many characters doing too many things in too many places. I didn't feel like the 'party' was together in this one, and as such I think a lot of the charm of the first season was lost. 

 

Personally I really liked this aspect of it.  If they were one group all the time I feel like it would have been too much a rehash of season 1.

 

Spoiler

I like that they all sort of went off and did their own things, it shows that they're individual characters rather than just a group.  Plus, you wouldn't get great, unexpected pairings like Steve and Dustin or Hopper and Eleven.  The exception in my mind is Eleven's side journey to nowhere but I've already complained enough about that.

 

 

19 minutes ago, YoThatLimp said:

Alright so

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Did anyone else think Bob was an evil scientist at first? When he weirdly decides to tell Will to confront the evil and that info turns Will into a host. I definitely thought that this was on purpose and the DoE was trying to expand testing of the Upside Down stuff on the public. 

 

Obviously it turns out to be totally bunk, but that was a weird 2-3 episode 'Evil Bob' arc for my wife and I

 

 

 

I'll admit that thought did occur to me.

 

Spoiler

I was both happy and disappointed to find out he's just a really good guy.  I like those kinds of characters but of course it meant he was going to die which was heartbreaking.  I was pleasantly surprised to see that Dr. Owens also turned out to not be secretly evil.

 

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I really hope season 3 can break out of Hawkins, but I doubt it will. I just think if there is any chance of any change it will have to come along with a change in setting.

 

I liked season 2, but it felt a bit rehashy and I fear for season 3 if nothing really changes.

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18 hours ago, Cordeos said:

I really hope season 3 can break out of Hawkins, but I doubt it will. I just think if there is any chance of any change it will have to come along with a change in setting.

 

I liked season 2, but it felt a bit rehashy and I fear for season 3 if nothing really changes.

They will have to be realllly careful if they do that. The moment they tried to break out this year, it was like being dunked into an ice bucket filled with the worst of Heroes and Orphan Black. 

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There's a few quotes in this article that suggest the show runners knew that episode would be divisive.







The seventh episode of Stranger Things 2 deviates from the rest of the season. It doesn’t take place in Hawkins; the main party of pre-teen boys don’t make an appearance; and we’re forced to spend close to an hour of viewing time with a group of people we’ll never see again. Director Shawn Levy told Collider they were aware the episode would be divisive because it moves the story out of Hawkins. Levy added that the Duffer brothers want to work toward building a bigger world.

“Whether or not people feel that episode was entirely successful ... the Duffers want to take some swings, and they know that they’re not gonna please everybody,” Levy said.

In a separate interview, the Duffer brothers added to Levy’s comments, telling Entertainment Weekly that the seventh episode was designed to not be a filler episode.

“Our test of the episode was we tried to pull it out of the show just to make sure that we needed it because I didn’t want it in there as filler — even though some critics are accusing us of doing that,” Matt said. “But Eleven’s journey kind of fell apart, like the ending didn’t work, without it. So I was like, whether this works or not, we need this building block in here or the whole show is going to collapse. It’s not going to end well. The Mind Flayer is going to take over Hawkins.”

 

The small town setting just has such a universality, relatable quality to it. It's something the adventure movies in the 80s had figured out.

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I'm trying to think of 80s movies they could pull from if they move to a city setting. Adventures In Babysitting? Jason Takes Manhattan?

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One interesting thing I was reminded of that came out of Beyond Stranger Things

 

Spoiler

In an early draft, Bob was going to die much earlier.  When he's in the car with Will giving him advice about standing up to the shadow monster, an evil possessed Will was supposed to murder him right there.  Bob was originally only supposed to be in a single episode but Sean Astin proved to be so charming they expanded his role and made his death a pivotal moment for Joyce.  Astin himself knew that Bob had to die so he asked for Bob to go out as heroically as possible.

 

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He only half got his wish,

forgetting his gun and stopping ten metres away from freedom while being chased by a bunch of hellhounds.

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9 minutes ago, Ben X said:

He only half got his wish,

  Reveal hidden contents

forgetting his gun and stopping ten metres away from freedom while being chased by a bunch of hellhounds.

 

 

Spoiler

The forgetting the gun thing bugged me because even if he had brought it he would have died in exactly the same way.  Hopper puts a couple of rounds from his rifle into one without slowing it down any, I seriously doubt his crappy sidearm would have done any better. All it did was the cliché foreshadowing of his death, which was itself a completely separate cliché.  Still, I felt Bob was pretty damn heroic given that he found out about all this only hours before.

 

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