Thyroid

Game of Thrones (TV show)

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The Jon cliffhanger is kind of a bummer since it was supposed to be a big surprise but as a book reader it wasn't an event I was looking forward to and his revival seems so blatantly obvious.  Kudos to the actor for that EW article though, keeping up the kayfabe until IMDB will inevitably spoil it.  

He's careful to say that he's not going to be in the next season

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He's careful to say that he's not going to be in the next season

I'd be surprised if they make it through 3 episodes next season before he reappears/reanimates.

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Thanks for the spoiler tags, everyone. I stopped reading them after the first sentence of Reyturner's post, though, as it moved into prediction territory without warning, and I suspect that's the way the conversation went.

 

Pretty much zero spoilers, but just in case:

 

I'm trying to figure out why I'm not enjoying the show as much now, and I think one thing is that this season really could have done with rushing through some stuff a bit less. I know it's hard for them because they have to try and keep all the plot threads at a similar level of progression to the books, and because of the realities of running a big, ensemble cast show like this, but I really wouldn't have minded, say, Dany, Arya and Brienne's threads getting slowed down to give Dorne space for a a big complex introduction like the ones we got for everywhere else in season 1 - might have freshened the show up a bit and given a sense of more time passing for those other threads . Perhaps this is just because I read the books first, though.

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I was also not enjoying this season as much, and I think Ben and Reyturner are helping me understand why. I totally agree with Ben about the pacing, and Reyturner mentioning that the artifice is showing is spot on.

In this season it seems like every character who had a goal or a plan or something had it shut down. Sansa's "friends in the north" are killed, Jon is attacked by zombies and then stabbed, Stannis goes out with a whimper. I'm sitting there waiting for the moment that character's plan is going to go awry, the show has taught me to always expect the worse, and it's just not interesting when all the characters fates are so sealed.

Also, man, I dislike Ramsay Bolton. Obviously I'm supposed to, but his character is flat, and he feels to me solely like a vehicle to deliver the audience torture porn.

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I was also not enjoying this season as much, and I think Ben and Reyturner are helping me understand why. I totally agree with Ben about the pacing, and Reyturner mentioning that the artifice is showing is spot on.

In this season it seems like every character who had a goal or a plan or something had it shut down. Sansa's "friends in the north" are killed, Jon is attacked by zombies and then stabbed, Stannis goes out with a whimper. I'm sitting there waiting for the moment that character's plan is going to go awry, the show has taught me to always expect the worse, and it's just not interesting when all the characters fates are so sealed.

Also, man, I dislike Ramsay Bolton. Obviously I'm supposed to, but his character is flat, and he feels to me solely like a vehicle to deliver the audience torture porn.

I don't like the way that plans have been foiled lately, either. It's one thing to always have plans go awry, but they keep going awry in uninteresting ways. Varys' plan with Tyrion went sour, but the plot with him was still interesting. With a lot of things -- especially with Stannis -- things just go bland when they go wrong.

I understand why a lot of choices were made this season, but I don't like those choices. For instance, Shireen was built up as the humanizing foil to Stannis' stern nature, and him turning on her was his end. It was a lot of little things like that -- decisions that make sense as a character arc or in the service of where they want to go with the plot, but that doesn't make it necessarily good.

And Dorne was definitely way too condensed. I understand the decision they had to make there too (book stuff), and I think they made the right one, but it was executed just terribly.

Double spoiler because book

Arya's plot was especially frustrating. We go forward into this really interesting stuff, but then reverse into something that's been dealt with in the books? It was just really disappointing.

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Surprising to read this, because I really liked this season and thought it had a good sense of momentum - in contract to the two previous seasons which were frustratingly meandering. All the characters in the story, be they ended or not, really progressed this season, went places, tried things, acted on their plans and then saw them in ruins or at least partially succeed. I've come to accept the many deaths and loose ends as a fact, and can, for instance, totally enjoy

 

the demise of Stannis, who is cemented as a character with a great tragic trajectory, someone who always seems to scheme his way to great power and then loses it through a combination of tough luck and bad choices. He really came alive in these last seasons and I adored him. I adore him still! His death was thrilling especially because it was so low-key. We didn't witness the slaughter of his army, we witnessed the resignation of a man who has come all this way through his incredible will alone, when no one, literally no one in the rest of the world except Ned Stark, wanted him to rise. The frightening choice he makes with Shireen, and the subsequent losses he endures, both dehumanize and humanize him. There's nothing left to him anymore, he's an empty vessel. Just watch that entire sequence again when he marches on Winterfell and he sees the Bolton army running him down. The way he looks down, then draws his sword and prepares to fight out of sheer mechanical impulse is so good. His face betrays his desire to have this all be done with. I would've liked to see Stannis on the throne, but in all probability this is the most touching, logical, dramatic way he could've ended.

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Surprised to hear nobody here talking about Daenerys' plotline!

 

Haha just kidding, it's so pointless it's been going in circles for literally like 3 seasons now. Seriously did anyone else expect her to conquer Meereen and move on after like 5 eps? I can't even bring myself to care about Tyrion/Varys being there, the politics are so dull and far removed from the rest of the show.

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GoT

 

I recently rewatched the pilot, and it reminded me that from back then Daenarys's plotline was set up as being an impending force on King's Landing. Her brother is impatient to get her married and asking when he's going to get his army and cross the narrow sea. Cut to 5 seasons of her roaming about to gather her army and ships and stuff. Also freeing slaves and governing a bit.

 

She's such a big procrastinator, no wonder she can't rule Mereen.

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Surprising to read this, because I really liked this season and thought it had a good sense of momentum - in contract to the two previous seasons which were frustratingly meandering. All the characters in the story, be they ended or not, really progressed this season, went places, tried things, acted on their plans and then saw them in ruins or at least partially succeed. I've come to accept the many deaths and loose ends as a fact, and can, for instance, totally enjoy

 

the demise of Stannis, who is cemented as a character with a great tragic trajectory, someone who always seems to scheme his way to great power and then loses it through a combination of tough luck and bad choices. He really came alive in these last seasons and I adored him. I adore him still! His death was thrilling especially because it was so low-key. We didn't witness the slaughter of his army, we witnessed the resignation of a man who has come all this way through his incredible will alone, when no one, literally no one in the rest of the world except Ned Stark, wanted him to rise. The frightening choice he makes with Shireen, and the subsequent losses he endures, both dehumanize and humanize him. There's nothing left to him anymore, he's an empty vessel. Just watch that entire sequence again when he marches on Winterfell and he sees the Bolton army running him down. The way he looks down, then draws his sword and prepares to fight out of sheer mechanical impulse is so good. His face betrays his desire to have this all be done with. I would've liked to see Stannis on the throne, but in all probability this is the most touching, logical, dramatic way he could've ended.

 

I agree it was a fitting end, but it would have done much better if it stood in contrast to other plot lines, unfortunately it felt like a footnote in an episode that was wrapping up plot lines left and right.

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Surprising to read this, because I really liked this season and thought it had a good sense of momentum - in contract to the two previous seasons which were frustratingly meandering. All the characters in the story, be they ended or not, really progressed this season, went places, tried things, acted on their plans and then saw them in ruins or at least partially succeed. I've come to accept the many deaths and loose ends as a fact, and can, for instance, totally enjoy

the demise of Stannis, who is cemented as a character with a great tragic trajectory, someone who always seems to scheme his way to great power and then loses it through a combination of tough luck and bad choices. He really came alive in these last seasons and I adored him. I adore him still! His death was thrilling especially because it was so low-key. We didn't witness the slaughter of his army, we witnessed the resignation of a man who has come all this way through his incredible will alone, when no one, literally no one in the rest of the world except Ned Stark, wanted him to rise. The frightening choice he makes with Shireen, and the subsequent losses he endures, both dehumanize and humanize him. There's nothing left to him anymore, he's an empty vessel. Just watch that entire sequence again when he marches on Winterfell and he sees the Bolton army running him down. The way he looks down, then draws his sword and prepares to fight out of sheer mechanical impulse is so good. His face betrays his desire to have this all be done with. I would've liked to see Stannis on the throne, but in all probability this is the most touching, logical, dramatic way he could've ended.

There's also the contrast between Shireen's death being so torturous and gross and Stannis' being so low key and dignified. I understand why they made those choices, but it feels gratuitous and gross. Coupled with all the other questionably portrayed violence against women this season, it feels like just another way of saying that women don't deserve dignity, but men do -- not as an in universe message, but in the way the stories have been told.

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There's also the contrast between Shireen's death being so torturous and gross and Stannis' being so low key and dignified. I understand why they made those choices, but it feels gratuitous and gross. Coupled with all the other questionably portrayed violence against women this season, it feels like just another way of saying that women don't deserve dignity, but men do -- not as an in universe message, but in the way the stories have been told.

 

GoT:

 

I thought it was conspicuous how you don't see Shireen burn, through. They don't mind showing adults of both genders being burned alive on Game of Thrones, it's happened at least three times to my memory, but apparently it's not cool when it's a child.

 

I'm not saying I want to see kids burned alive, but I think it's another in a series of GoT scenes that makes me ponder the relationship between the show and the (ultimately fairly arbitrary) censorship laws for TV in the west in general and the US particularly (since that's where its producing company is based and it's most legally responsible to).

 

Game of Thrones is one of the best examples of how HBO shows generally use their position as not being on network TV to add more graphic nudity and violence. This seems to transition from being something a show on HBO could do to something it should do fairly instantly, and at this point may even be something it must do. So when I see Game of Thrones "tastefully" looking away from the child burning, I don't actually see it as tasteful, and I don't feel any less complicit. All I think about is how resolutely the series wishes to show me every other slightly transgressive scene it can come up with. The falseness of the modesty inherent in not showing Shireen's death while showing most other deaths and moments of sex in as explicit detail as possible just makes me feel worse about it.

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GoT

 

You could also draw a parrallel with how Sansa's rape was framed (ie: focusing on Theon's reaction to it) and Shireen's burning (focusing on Stannis' reaction). I think it's actually a pretty common thread in GoT that when a man is killed or maimed, the focus is on him. When a woman is killed or maimed, the focus is on a third person (usually a man) it effects.

 

Ros being killed by Joffrey (his enjoyment)

Talisa getting stabbed (Robb's shock)

Shay getting strangled (Tyrions rage) 

Ramsay's various victims

Lysa Arryn getting thrown out of the Moon Door (Littlefinger's smug face) 

Ygritte getting arrow'd by Olly (Jon's shock)

Mycella's poisoning (Jamie's horror) 

 

Really, I can only think of Catelyn Stark being the star of her own death.

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I'm not on Slack right now, where this has certainly been posted, but here's a good article on the ways that this season of Game of Thrones is different and what they mean for the show as a whole: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/06/how-game-of-thrones-became-a-different-show/489305/

I'm not as bullish as the author, feeling as I do that I'm already flush with "exciting" TV but that doesn't mean I get much in the way of "meaningful" TV. Still, an excellently incisive summation.

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I'm not on Slack right now, where this has certainly been posted, but here's a good article on the ways that this season of Game of Thrones is different and what they mean for the show as a whole: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/06/how-game-of-thrones-became-a-different-show/489305/

I'm not as bullish as the author, feeling as I do that I'm already flush with "exciting" TV but that doesn't mean I get much in the way of "meaningful" TV. Still, an excellently incisive summation.

 

I'm broadly in agreement with him. The show won't ever be what it was again - as he points out, the first few seasons were the result of being able to cherry pick scenes and plots from a vast, detailed book series that was excellently written and constructed in the first half. It has to change somehow, and the change is either to be like the more recent books, which (again as he points out) are meandering and actually rather boring, or to become something new and gather some energy and momentum again.

 

I'm pleased we're getting the latter, even if it does come with a loss of some of the detail and care the earlier seasons were graced with.

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I haven't watched the latest season at all yet but I've heard vague/good things re: gratuitous tits for tits' sake and rape as a plot device (in that there's less of it).

 

Curious how people feel about that. I generally have a pretty high tolerance for stuff like that, as long as I otherwise like the show, but even I was getting tired of being grossed out by Game of Thrones.

 

also i guess the first question would be - is it true

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I haven't watched the latest season at all yet but I've heard vague/good things re: gratuitous tits for tits' sake and rape as a plot device (in that there's less of it).

Curious how people feel about that. I generally have a pretty high tolerance for stuff like that, as long as I otherwise like the show, but even I was getting tired of being grossed out by Game of Thrones.

also i guess the first question would be - is it true

I haven't noticed an appreciable change, personally. Nudity, torture, and rape are still recurring devices for the plot, it's more that the plot's moving so much faster that there's less time for that loving touch.

Game of Thrones still wants to shock you, desperately so. It's just too busy to do it like it used to.

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Whatever the reason, I for one am happy that this season of 'Thrones seemed much less horribly rapey. Of course, such is the nature of television, it wants to shock, but I found it all much more palatable, without surrendering on being interesting. I agree with the article very much - it was observably lacking in the finesse of the first few seasons, but made up for that by being better paced by quite a lot.

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My uninformed opinion as a show watcher only, is that becoming unanchored by the books has been a good thing. The show seemed to have a tenuous relationship with the books at times already, analogous to a dramatic historical fiction not really being factually correct to events. They liked taking inspirations and ideas but weren't committed to keeping it really the same. Now that it's more different, in some ways I'm less interested in what it's doing because it's less of the quirks that the books had. But at the same time, it's doing a better job of what it seemingly wanted to be the whole time anyway.

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My uninformed opinion as a show watcher only, is that becoming unanchored by the books has been a good thing.

 

Oh man I'm not sure if being let loose from the books is a change for the better. The ability to cherry pick from a vast, coherent plot (GRRM writes meanderingly, pointlessly so, but the plot is consistent and leads to payoff) was the only thing saving D&D's writing. They're barely, barely writers. They are producers? Maybe? Almost OK-ish directors?

 

In terms of quality, the show is suffering. The consistency is nonexistent. The timing is nonexstient. The payoff is always left until the last two episodes of every season. For viewing pleasure, from now on I would recommend to read a summary of 1-8 and then watch episode 9 and 10.

 

If you were put off GOT for the tits, rape and torture, yeah, that's gotten better (for now). And yeah, the production value is as good as ever. Whenever it is bright enough to see anything, it's usually a beautifully shot show. But hey, if you're into the equivalent of sensationalist writing that infringes on character consistency, in the style of any semihistorical drama, go for it. It's beyond peak at this point, living through the glory of past seasons, but past seasons were damn good and definitely worth watching.

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Oh man I'm not sure if being let loose from the books is a change for the better. The ability to cherry pick from a vast, coherent plot (GRRM writes meanderingly, pointlessly so, but the plot is consistent and leads to payoff) was the only thing saving D&D's writing. They're barely, barely writers. They are producers? Maybe? Almost OK-ish directors?

In terms of quality, the show is suffering. The consistency is nonexistent. The timing is nonexstient. The payoff is always left until the last two episodes of every season. For viewing pleasure, from now on I would recommend to read a summary of 1-8 and then watch episode 9 and 10.

If you were put off GOT for the tits, rape and torture, yeah, that's gotten better (for now). And yeah, the production value is as good as ever. Whenever it is bright enough to see anything, it's usually a beautifully shot show. But hey, if you're into the equivalent of sensationalist writing that infringes on character consistency, in the style of any semihistorical drama, go for it. It's beyond peak at this point, living through the glory of past seasons, but past seasons were damn good and definitely worth watching.

Yeah, my take is that the showrunners are (mostly) excellent adapters of material who were betrayed in previous seasons by a lack of certainty about where that material was actually going. Given free reign in the world that they helped to build, their pacing has quickened but become impossibly uneven, with scenes being chosen and crafted for short-term effect only. Characters act inconsistently and events fall out of nowhere because the eye's only on the climax of the episode, the last two episodes of the season, and nothing else. It's thrilling TV, to be sure, but not good, at least not for me. It's BSG if every season ended like the first or Breaking Bad if every finale had a near miss between Walt and Hank.

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Finally managed to catch up with Game of Thrones. Watched the whole season in one sitting. Now I kind of want to go back and read some opinions on it, but to me it felt like the first half of it was dragging along. In general, the whole Song of Ice and Fire series has been dragging on for so long that I really don't care about "what happens next" or "which of the main character dies next". There could be a hundred variants it could go, each one valid, who cares? It feels like even G.R.R. Martin doesn't get to say what's canonical any more. Although of course he can by publishing the next book. The whole part of houses swearing loyalties to more important houses again and then swearing to another and then back, is getting old. Just fucking get to the grand battle between good and evil that has been building up and stop dawdling. I guess the next season might get to that, but then again, maybe not quite yet.

 

Did Jon Snow just become too important for fans that they had to bring him back?

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So this has started up again. It's difficult for me to be too excited about any show's seventh season, but after watching the first episode today I'm at least pleased that some of the broad storylines we've been waiting for (the White Walkers, Dany coming to Westeros, Arya's revenge) appear to finally be coming to fruition.

 

The Ed Sheeran cameo was a bit weird, though.

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So that really was Ed Sheeran, huh? I mean, sure, if Sigur Ros gets in, why not Sheeran.

 

We're heading in the least interesting part of the story now: the wrap-up where it has become increasingly clear some characters have started donning plot armor (COUGH JON SNOW) and we're actually doing the whole 'zombies versus dragons' thing that, while fun, promises to be so much less interesting than raggedy kings making a break for the throne. Even so, this episode was filled with fun stuff.

 

Arya getting her vengeance on House Frey in a great opener, everything surrounding the Hound. Other storylines still flounder, with Dany finally arriving in Westeros, but I fear she's just not that interesting a character after seasons of having so little to offer. At least the crazy roguish new Iron Islands king has a bit of a saunter in his step, otherwise it would all be dour people being cranky. Looking forward to ep 2!

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