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Game of Thrones (TV show)

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What a shite Game of Thrones episode. 

 

I'm curious to see if the grimdark starts getting to everyone else. It feels like a lot of the tension has gone out of the series now that no-one's really shooting for the Iron Throne.

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I didn't quite dislike the episode, in fact, the beginning and middle parts were quite well interwoven, jumping naturally from one set of characters to the other as they came up in conversation. The last part was tedious though, because that absolute last thing that I wanted was

 

for Jon Snow to return to castle Black. AARRGGHHH, we finally left that boring place and now we're back?! Good lord, everything that happens on the wall is incredibly uninteresting.

 

But even moreso the whole bit at Craster's house, which left me feeling a LOT more icky than the events in the previous episode. For all the horribleness of Jaime's rape of Cersei, at least it was a horrible thing that happened between people we cared about, who each had their motivations, and it developed their relation in perhaps unwanted but definitely certain ways. But Craster's house boiled down to being nothing but a rape factory between all sorts of non-descript wailing women and grunting Evil Men. It was exasperating and vile, and made me not want to watch the show.

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I didn't quite dislike the episode, in fact, the beginning and middle parts were quite well interwoven, jumping naturally from one set of characters to the other as they came up in conversation. The last part was tedious though, because that absolute last thing that I wanted was

 

for Jon Snow to return to castle Black. AARRGGHHH, we finally left that boring place and now we're back?! Good lord, everything that happens on the wall is incredibly uninteresting.

 

But even moreso the whole bit at Craster's house, which left me feeling a LOT more icky than the events in the previous episode. For all the horribleness of Jaime's rape of Cersei, at least it was a horrible thing that happened between people we cared about, who each had their motivations, and it developed their relation in perhaps unwanted but definitely certain ways. But Craster's house boiled down to being nothing but a rape factory between all sorts of non-descript wailing women and grunting Evil Men. It was exasperating and vile, and made me not want to watch the show.

 

The stuff beyond the Wall is good in the books. There's a sense of mystery there, of unknown forces operating beneath the surface and the characters skating just barely above. In the show, it's all awful because Kit Harington is a boring puffy frat boy and because someone on the writing or directing staff is determined to explore as much of the White Walkers as possible. I'm sorry, guys, your huge and inchoate evil threatening all of existence loses its terror when you insist on showing over and over that it's just a bunch of goofy-looking ice zombies, FYI.

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Yeah, when I saw the ten Lich Kings standing there, my immediate thought was: Oh, they have leaders. That can be killed and then they'll just scatter to the wind, and they're just another faction with weaknesses and desires and whatever.

 

I'm not that down on Kit Harington, actually, just give him something to do. The stuff with Ygritte was at least entertaining. This is a slog. Well, at least Noah Taylor is there now, so there's someone with a smidge of charisma doing interesting things.

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Double post: I am on the verge of being done with Game of Thrones.

 

This entire season so far has been bleak and joyless. GoT was always cruel, but also had enough moments of levity (the enjoyment of seeing Tyrion do his thing) or wonder (Daenarys in Qarth comes to mind) to balance things out. Season 4 has been one horror after the other. One rape after the other. Exploitative torture & a rape factory. And now they've killed off the one character that was actually a bit of fun this year, a ray of sunshine in the sooted chimney; Oberyn. His truly heinous death at the hands of the Tower has left me sickened, and more than a bit tired. If it doesn't regain any sense of joy or wonder, not a redeeming spark, I might be done with the whole thing.

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Double post: I am on the verge of being done with Game of Thrones.

 

This entire season so far has been bleak and joyless. GoT was always cruel, but also had enough moments of levity (the enjoyment of seeing Tyrion do his thing) or wonder (Daenarys in Qarth comes to mind) to balance things out. Season 4 has been one horror after the other. One rape after the other. Exploitative torture & a rape factory. And now they've killed off the one character that was actually a bit of fun this year, a ray of sunshine in the sooted chimney; Oberyn. His truly heinous death at the hands of the Tower has left me sickened, and more than a bit tired. If it doesn't regain any sense of joy or wonder, not a redeeming spark, I might be done with the whole thing.

 

I've been feeling equally down on GoT this season.  Brienne and Pod in the episode before the most recent (haven't gotten to the most recent yet) reminded me of the levity and fun the show could have.  I was also following this same trajectory with the books, though, finding 4 and 5 to be a steady descent into skimming, so I'm not surprised.  I've decided not to continue with the books, but to finish out the show, especially now that the show is just starting to give us glimpses of things that haven't been written.

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Double post: I am on the verge of being done with Game of Thrones.

 

This entire season so far has been bleak and joyless. GoT was always cruel, but also had enough moments of levity (the enjoyment of seeing Tyrion do his thing) or wonder (Daenarys in Qarth comes to mind) to balance things out. Season 4 has been one horror after the other. One rape after the other. Exploitative torture & a rape factory. And now they've killed off the one character that was actually a bit of fun this year, a ray of sunshine in the sooted chimney; Oberyn. His truly heinous death at the hands of the Tower has left me sickened, and more than a bit tired. If it doesn't regain any sense of joy or wonder, not a redeeming spark, I might be done with the whole thing.

I've been feeling equally down on GoT this season.  Brienne and Pod in the episode before the most recent (haven't gotten to the most recent yet) reminded me of the levity and fun the show could have.  I was also following this same trajectory with the books, though, finding 4 and 5 to be a steady descent into skimming, so I'm not surprised.  I've decided not to continue with the books, but to finish out the show, especially now that the show is just starting to give us glimpses of things that haven't been written.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if the show isn't a victim of its own success. The books were rough, but certainly not always, since I can pick out in my memory the bleak moments as opposed to every other chapter having a "fuck you" in it. But we keep seeing hear the ugliest and most explicit interpretation of many scenes, so I'm trying harder and harder not to think that the people running the show have just bought into Game of Thrones as "that really fucked up series on TV".

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I'm beginning to wonder if the show isn't a victim of its own success. The books were rough, but certainly not always, since I can pick out in my memory the bleak moments as opposed to every other chapter having a "fuck you" in it. But we keep seeing hear the ugliest and most explicit interpretation of many scenes, so I'm trying harder and harder not to think that the people running the show have just bought into Game of Thrones as "that really fucked up series on TV".

 

My feelings about this started in Season 3, with the torture porn built around Theon.  The trajectory of the show as been to accentuate the violence and horror over other things in the books, or perhaps it's just that they only have so much time and important story beats often involve the greatest violence and horror. 

 

 

ZAAAARDOZ!

 

Movie night is tonight.  I'm super excited!

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Why is everyone so bummed out about Game of Thrones? I haven't watched the last episode, but up until now this season has at least dropped the awful, awful, way too long Ramsay's torture plot. I'm loving what's been going on so far.

 

That said, I have not read the books so I have no frame of reference as to how much more grim the series is trying to be..

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This series of GoT has been very grim. I can cope with it, but it gets a bit… egh.

 

I thought Oberon was a smarmy elitist twat, but watching his head pop was the squickiest moment in GoT so far. I thought his death was well foreshadowed by all his showing off to the crowd though; he lost the fight because he was concentrating on various other of his agendas. The constant, long-term tension over Tyrion's fate made me go and read a bunch of spoilers, which I'm happy I did.

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I was genuinely shocked at Oberyn's death, and for a crazy reason. A friend of mine has the books and just for the fun of it I flipped through one of the later ones, without really reading anything, but just to take in the proze. I was sure that I noticed then a chapter from Oberyn's perspective, so I thought I had already spoiled myself, knowing that whatever happened, he'd survive. Guess I was wrong, but at least it made for a huge leap as the Mountain (which I weirdly called the Tower in an earlier post) squashed him in a sickening way.

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This series of GoT has been very grim. I can cope with it, but it gets a bit… egh.

 

I thought Oberon was a smarmy elitist twat, but watching his head pop was the squickiest moment in GoT so far. I thought his death was well foreshadowed by all his showing off to the crowd though; he lost the fight because he was concentrating on various other of his agendas. The constant, long-term tension over Tyrion's fate made me go and read a bunch of spoilers, which I'm happy I did.

I was genuinely shocked at Oberyn's death, and for a crazy reason. A friend of mine has the books and just for the fun of it I flipped through one of the later ones, without really reading anything, but just to take in the proze. I was sure that I noticed then a chapter from Oberyn's perspective, so I thought I had already spoiled myself, knowing that whatever happened, he'd survive. Guess I was wrong, but at least it made for a huge leap as the Mountain (which I weirdly called the Tower in an earlier post) squashed him in a sickening way.

 

As someone who'd read the book and liked that scene, I was curious how it would turn out, especially to those seeing it for the first time. I was really disappointed that Oberyn was just introduced, given maybe five minutes to explain how much he hates Lannisters, and then killed off after a painfully undramatic fight that couldn't help telegraphing the consequences of Oberyn's arrogance. I wish I weren't so hung up with how the books did things, but this has been the second of two scenes this season (Jaime raping Cersei being the first) that really drive home how willing the show is to tear past something that was subtle and interesting on paper in order to get to the gross and uncomfortable parts that'll blow up Twitter and Facebook.

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I don't understand the complaint that Game of Thrones suddenly got grim. It has always been a nihilistic series. A Song of Ice and Fire is just as bad. I don't know why you were expecting any different from a series that kicked off with the cheerful attempted murder of a 12-year-old to cover up an incestuous relationship.

 

To me it feels like this period of television is going to be seen as kind of the equivalent of 90s comic books where we'll all wake up in ten years and go 'why the hell did we believe that something being darker meant it was more worthy?' especially because it means I get out of having to watch Breaking Bad. 

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I don't understand the complaint that Game of Thrones suddenly got grim. It has always been a nihilistic series. A Song of Ice and Fire is just as bad. I don't know why you were expecting any different from a series that kicked off with the cheerful attempted murder of a 12-year-old to cover up an incestuous relationship.

 

To me it feels like this period of television is going to be seen as kind of the equivalent of 90s comic books where we'll all wake up in ten years and go 'why the hell did we believe that something being darker meant it was more worthy?' especially because it means I get out of having to watch Breaking Bad. 

 

For me, and I can't speak for anyone else, it's basically a matter of escalation. Yeah, Game of Thrones has always had brutal moments, but they were brutal because there was some sort of counterpoint elsewhere in the story. Like Bjorn says, the show feels worse and worse because all the major story beats are grim stuff, but also greater precedence is being given to grim stuff in general (probably because of time and logistics, not malicious intent) and in some cases (for me, the two I mentioned, both of which we've talked about here) the grim stuff is actually written and staged to seem even grimmer than the books.

. And I mean, grimmer than the books, really?

 

It wears on me, because I hate the generic dark low-fantasy quasi-historical epic that's flooded a lot of genre fiction and the reason A Song of Ice and Fire appealed to me was that it wasn't just an author being unremittingly terrible to his characters, despite the "George R.R. Martin hates you" memes that have taken over the internet, but in the HBO show even stuff that was widely mocked for being incongruously lighthearted (I remember reading a blog deriding what was termed "Daenerys' magical dragon-riding adventure safari" as poorly suited to the books' tone) is now full of frowns and shouting. I'm not mad, just bored.

 

Also, agreed about Ramsay Snow. What a tedious character to have, even more so than Joffrey. It must be something about psychopaths on TV. Whatever, I'll keep watching it.

 

 

EDIT: And this joke article popped up on Facebook the moment I hit "Post". I feel like everyone is still just losing their shit because it's the first show they've ever seen where any character can die at any time, only that's not why I watch it.

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I understand where you're coming from, but I feel like it was obvious it was going to get darker and darker until people threw up their hands and stopped caring because that's essentially what George R. R. Martin wanted. The whole philosophy behind killing off characters is so that readers don't know what's coming next. It's the same sickness that infests genre storytelling, where it's so important to have a twist that telling a good, satisfying story gets kicked to the kerb. I don't have any confidence that Martin has anything to say, that his story actually has an emotional core, or that there'll be any victory for the good guys that won't be forced and rushed, because if he did, then he wouldn't have structured the story in the way that he has. We would have an idea about what the story is actually about by now.

 

Or maybe I'm not that sympathetic towards people having this problem in Season 4 because I already went through it in Season 2, and decided that I'd need to rely on my emotional investment with my housemate to get me through, and enjoy the series as a lavish compilation series about tragedy. If I was watching it on my own, I think I probably would have already given up.

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It's the same sickness that infests genre storytelling, where it's so important to have a twist that telling a good, satisfying story gets kicked to the kerb.

 

I don't know that I agree entirely with the rest of what you say, but I agree with this one sentence so much that finer points really don't matter.

 

Relatedly, I just watched last week's episode of Fargo and I have to restate that Deputy Molly Solverson is the best thing happening in TV right now.

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Hm. That was an icky last scene. And infuriating that Oberyn came so close to winning this for Tyrion. I don't really give a fuck about Oberyn, but now I am worried they might actually kill my favorite character.. And as an AVClub review mentioned, aside from the shock-value, the gruesomeness of this death was possibly meant to prepare us for a big change in the world of Westeros that might be coming.. Who knows!

 

I don't mind the grimness to a degree and I actually kind of sort of enjoy the brutality of stuff like that. (In a way that makes me curse the show for doing it..?!) I guess I just like campy, genre stuff. I don't know. I still think there's plenty of good drama and intrigue left in the show to weigh the brutal stuff out. The Hound and Arya Stark are consistently entertaining. Pod and Brienne are great together. Even Sansa Stark is finally getting to do something interesting, potentially (even though the road to it was bumpy..) I enjoy it. But maybe I don't read/watch enough fantasy fiction to be annoyed by the current trends in there..

 

Ramsay The Crazy Hobbit Supervillain's stupid plotline can go away, though. Please. Holy shit.. Go away.

 

EDIT: I do find myself wishing they'd do more episodes that are a bit more focused.. Less hopping around to check in on every situation and focus on a couple of plotlines and get some depth in there. I GUESS THERE WOULD BE TIME FOR MORE FOCUS IF RAMSAY WOULD SOD OFF AND NEVER RETURN! :(

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GoT

An entire episode without Tyrion :( I can't believe they forgot to put a lock on that gate. They've been there for a thousand years and no one ever thought of it.

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GoT

An entire episode without Tyrion :( I can't believe they forgot to put a lock on that gate. They've been there for a thousand years and no one ever thought of it.

 

I liked it. It was nice to have an entire episode take place in one location rather than jumping all over. It's a shame they only do it for big battles, though.

 

Also, you can definitely tell that something big's coming to the Wall and the Night's Watch, considering that nine out of ten named characters there are dead or incapacitated now.

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GoT finale

 

Surprisingly fun for what is usually the after-battle-mop-up episode. I discovered that I have a weird weak spot for Stannis. He's so stern and dour, and he works so hard to get there and he's so stoically tormented all the time. Not a friendly chap, and I expect Robespierre-level purgings should he take the throne, but I want to see him succeed nonetheless.

 

Tyrion shooting Tywin at the end was a fitting and expected end. Rather than the actual shooting, what I loved was how Tywin's power was carefully dismantled throughout the episode. Turns out all anyone had to do to escape his grasp was to say 'I'm no longer playing this game, I'm done and I don't have a fuck to give anymore'. And his power drained away. With all his children in mutiny, there was nothing left for the character but die on the privy in the most anticlimactic fashion.

 

These last two seasons were very weird. The choice to cut book three into two whole seasons made sense to emphasize big moments such as the red and purple wedding, the battle for Castle Black and all that, but it also caused some of the more quiet arcs to become extremely tedious and stretched out. Both Arya and Tyrion spent two years of our actual time just moping around, either in forests or in King's Landing. It really demolished a lot of excitement for these characters, and I hope that now that the stalemate's broken, we'll see their stories pick up again.

 

The most exciting things are Arya finally making good on her Valar Morghulis bitcoin and Stannis suddenly swooping in and saving the Wall. What's he doing there? There's no way he was able to move that army on a summons from the castle, since logistically, the choice to march was probably given weeks before that. I'm very excited to find out. All I can think of is that there's either a massive opportunity for him over there to grow his army or weaken the Lannisters, or Melisandre has prophesied that he should go north, possibly to intersect with Bran's venture to the spooky tree. Let's find out in 40 weeks!

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I'm surprised at how little people seem to have talked about Mad Men this last season. I've really enjoyed

watching Don shaken and contemplating his own obsolescence.

Likewise Tywin in GoT:

It was a good last scene to watch his usually assertive and brutally persuasive dialogue become so desperate and unconvincing once Tyrion had declared he wasn't playing his game any more.

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Huh, I thought what's discussed regarding GoT was out of character enough that I decided to stop watching. Especially what occurred just previously.

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Some of the upcoming changes for Game of Thrones from the ASOIAF -> TV series, spoilers for the books and sideways spoilers for the show (in that you know things that are NOT going to happen) - http://mirthandlaughter.tumblr.com/post/100845983883/10-reasons-why-im-looking-forward-to-not-being-called

 

All of these changes are incredible and I'm so stoked for the next season of GoT.

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