Rob Zacny

Episode 383: Distant Worlds and Aurora

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Three Moves Ahead 383:

Three Moves Ahead 383


Distant Worlds and Aurora
The title of the patron backer poll was: "What two (2) inscrutable games do Rob and Troy have to explain to each other?" We found the most incrutabl-iest games we could for our list and the backers voted: Distant Worlds and Aurora would be the games to play. Unfortunately, Troy's head exploded during his valiant effort so this week Rob and Michael will talk about these two behemoths of space strategy. They won't cover everything and won't get everything right, but maybe - just maybe - they'll sell you on what makes these challenging games worth your time. Or not. Probably not.

Distant Worlds: Universe, Aurora

 

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Aurora sounded interesting you guys introduced the game at the top of the show but Michael's description of the game made me progressively horrified. My God.

 

Whenever I see a game with the Visual Basic aesthetic I actually get a pang of nostalgia for the freeware Eastside Hockey Manager. Rule the Waves looking like that may have been a positive for me getting into that game.

 

I enjoyed the discussion about learning games because it's something I've struggled with. The question of when and why I would want to do something is the big issue I have. With Europa Universalis 3, Crusader Kings II, and Rule the Waves the only way I had got past that was I had recommended the games to a friend shortly after I bought them but before I stopped playing, he would tell me about all the cool things he was getting up to, and then I'd put my head down and power through so I could have a similar experience.

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I loved this episode though I would have loved to hear your take on unreal world. I am a huge dwarf fortress nerd and also dabble in unreal world so this episode scratched an itch. I'd never heard of Aurora before now and gave it a load as soon as I got home from work. It fired up right away without issue then my brain attempted auto erotic euthenisa or something. I can take the keyboard shortcuts of Dwarf Fortress but the endless nested forms from Windows 3.Whatever induced nightmares. I admit I listened to quill 18 play the game on the way home on my long commute and he made it sound amazing but I gave up just trying to assign a governor for Earth lol. I will give it another shot when I've actually watched all the episodes I listened to on the car ride this game requires visual learning. I love this show btw, been listening for years

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Distant World: This game is really a mile wide and an inch deep, the problem is that inch is pitch black so it doesn't look like it.  If you want to absolutely min-max it you can but 90% of the game you can just ignore.  And I don't mean from an automation perspective, just from the fact that it's pointless to even deal with it because it has little to no consequence in the game.  It's got tons of resources to manage but the automation and civilian economy does that for you so you don't have to think about anything but maybe one or two rare resources and fuel.  The ground combat has nuance to it but there is no mechanism to do anything but overwhelm your opponent with raw numbers and a couple bonuses (space control of the planet and combined arms).  Leaders have some pretty big bonuses that work out to be nothing more than just paying attention to one fleet commander who has all your best bonuses in one big fleet.  You may have more fleets, but you'll typically end up with just one that does all the real work.

 

I do enjoy it, but just realize it comes off as a lot more daunting than it is.  Anyone new picking it up should just turn on automation for everything but missions, fleet formation, and production, and just roll with it.  It will start to make a lot of sense as you let the game run on it's own while you focus on pushing ships around.

 

Aurora: I agree with the sentiment that everyone should at least try Aurora.  It is for a very particular crowd, but the idea of what can be done in a game if someone decides to ever try and implement similar concepts in a more user friendly environment is something no one should miss.  It's can actually be kind of lightweight in just playing for 10-15 hours as a space empire management simulator with the AI basically turned off just to experience it.  The real problem with Aurora is the combat system is so crazy that it will leave you with nightmares if you try and figure it out without being invested in the game long term.  Working out ideal sensor systems so you can see your opponents and their weaponry as it races in, building both your point defense systems and main weaponry, getting contacts during an engagement, balancing out mobility and ammo capacity, and working out a way to both get your weaponry on target while countering your opponents. That's all just the basics needed for missile combat without even considering the nuance in short range weaponry with turret tracking, maneuverability ratings, armor damage profiles, shields, small craft and fighters, carriers, supply vessels, task force management...

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Interesting discussion. I think these complex games are a good fit for the show format since it's worthwhile and entertaining to narrate the 'basic' game features. Enjoyed the ragging on VB6 and the like (though I think of it as allowing more software to exist rather than making software worse.) And the Victoria II discussion was just a nice bonus.

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Despite the warning at the start of the podcast I actually thought it was a pretty good pod. Michael needs to click more buttons to find out what the mineral contents of Luna is (or isn't. might just not be any!) but he probably knows that.

 

In regards to DW:U being big and shallow: yeah, the more time you spend with Distant Worlds the more you realize that only the top-level decisions (who do I declare war on, where do I colonize and research to an extent) matter a lot. The fun in Distant Worlds is in developing this clockwork galaxy that goes about its business of doing things that don't really matter while I decide to put tourist resorts in orbit of black holes and other goofy things between wars. I love DW:U but Stellaris is probably a better game.

 

Last year I played Aurora for about a month but had to quit cold because, as much as I love this inscrutable shit and enjoyed the harrowing 5-second interval space navy combat, I just got real tired of the ship design loop. Doing the whole thing once is one thing, but starting up that redesign process every few years when you get new tech and need to keep up is tiresome. I was doing more work with spreadsheets than I do with my real job. I hope Michael plays long enough to get into designing missiles and buoys, as I found that pretty interesting.

 

also I hope Troy can be forced to play CMANO. I bought it on winter sale and have only played one tutorial so far but geez. Its like if the Aurora guy had a team to work with and they were all way into 80s world war 3 fiction.

 

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I was really hoping CMANO would make the cut for this show - hopefully you can do another show on it some time. 

 

The one thing I hope for Distant Worlds 2 is something of an economy that actually means something - it's so barebones in DW:U and so trivial to be rolling in funds that its the main reason I've stopped playing it.

 

On Aurora, Michael hit on the point that it's very much like War in the Pacific - it's not about getting through the minutiae to get to the game, the game is the minutiae. If you can embrace that you'll love it.

 

 

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On 1/24/2017 at 11:45 AM, Valosar said:

I loved this episode though I would have loved to hear your take on unreal world...I love this show btw, been listening for years

 

Thanks! And yes, someday I'll shoehorn UnReal World into the show. I love that game.

 

On 1/24/2017 at 5:03 PM, cornchip said:

Interesting discussion. I think these complex games are a good fit for the show format since it's worthwhile and entertaining to narrate the 'basic' game features. Enjoyed the ragging on VB6 and the like (though I think of it as allowing more software to exist rather than making software worse.) And the Victoria II discussion was just a nice bonus.

 

My beef with VB6 is mostly due to the fact that I've been forced to use it so many times thanks to work. At my current job I have some more autonomy and do as much as I can in Python, but I've made my fair share of terrible VB6 interfaces. So many tabs... 

 

On 1/24/2017 at 5:06 PM, danimo said:

Despite the warning at the start of the podcast I actually thought it was a pretty good pod. Michael needs to click more buttons to find out what the mineral contents of Luna is (or isn't. might just not be any!) but he probably knows that.

 

also I hope Troy can be forced to play CMANO. I bought it on winter sale and have only played one tutorial so far but geez. Its like if the Aurora guy had a team to work with and they were all way into 80s world war 3 fiction.

 

 

I did find it! Eventually. And CMANO will get its turn - we can't let something as beefy as that game lie fallow.

 

On 1/24/2017 at 7:21 PM, Avian Overlord said:

Micheal, the film you were trying to think of was Little Shop of Horrors.

 

Yes! Now I remember that I don't like that movie at all, except for the Bill Murray parts.

 

6 hours ago, SamS said:

The one thing I hope for Distant Worlds 2 is something of an economy that actually means something - it's so barebones in DW:U and so trivial to be rolling in funds that its the main reason I've stopped playing it.

 

Is DW2 something that they've announced? That would be exciting.

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There's been no official 'announcement' of DW2, but it's been confirmed in the Matrix forums that it is being worked on. No other information.

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I would happily listen to a whole podcast series of Michael figuring out Aurora. :) A Let's Play in podcast form. It could be up there with the Idle Thumbs CK2 Stream

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