Lork

The Huge Armored Core Playthrough

Recommended Posts

A little while ago I took it upon myself to play through all the Armored Core games.  Armored Core, if you don't know, is a series of "mech games" made by everyone's new favorite developer From Software.  The central idea is that you build your own giant robot out of modular parts and use it to take on mercenary jobs to blow stuff up for fun and profit, with emphasis on the profit part, as you're always trying to make more money to buy better parts to attach to your robot.

 

Playing all of the AC games is a bit of an undertaking, mostly because there are a billion of them.  Long before everyone was complaining about yearly Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed releases, From Software was quietly putting out one of these games every year, sometimes more than one, even!

 

I was reminded of the series when I saw Giant Bomb play a demo for the first game, which unlocked fond memories of playing the hell out of that same demo with a friend on the disc that came with my original Playstation.  It made me wonder why I never bothered trying out the actual games before, because the core concept of coming up with the design for the perfect machine and then piloting it to victory really speaks to me!  Well, when you add a (relatively) newfound healthy interest in the developer to the mix, that means it's time to give it a shot.

 

I realize this is a topic that will barely get any attention compared to "90s first person shooters" or "metal gear", and I actually started this playthrough a while back, so I've already played a bunch of them, making it extra weird.  But eh, I've got some musings about these games to get off my chest and this seems like the place for it.

 

I'll be making posts with my thoughts on each game, which you may find interesting.  You're welcome to play along of course, and if you have any trouble I can even give you hot tips and tricks straight from the pages of gamepro magazine (tm). Hell, the 360/PS3 games even have online coop which I'd love to try, though I can't confirm whether or not those features rely on servers which have been shut down.

 

Anway, I'll start with:

 

Armored Core (Playstation, 1997)

 

2040481555_9d313e1640.jpg

 

The first thing anyone mentions when they talk about these games nowadays is the dated control scheme. It's basically tank controls on the d-pad, shoulder buttons to strafe and look up/down on the left and right triggers.  I will say that when the game first came out, these controls were not out of place.  In 1997 people were only just beginning to figure out how to control a first/third person shooter with a mouse and keyboard, let alone a gamepad, and I remember playing a lot of games that controlled similarly at the time.  Of course, that was then.  Nowadays, these controls simply don't hold up.  

 

Luckily they can be remapped.  The game came out before the DualShock controller, so it doesn't support the analog sticks at all, but I randomly came across a forum post with a pretty clever workaround: bind look up/down/left/right to the face buttons.  With that, you can make an approximation of modern dual analog controls.  If you've ever played a 3rd person shooter on the PSP (eg. The Third Birthday, Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker) it's the exact same idea.  It's not ideal, but it was enough to satisfy my delicate 2017 hands, and after a short while I was able to stop thinking about it and just play the game.

 

I said these are "mech games" up at the top there because that seems to be what most people call them, but I think that's actually a bullshit genre because it's almost entirely based on the theming/fantasy elements and not the way the game plays.  What I'd really call it is a hybrid between a 3rd person shooter and a simulation/vehicle game.  It feels a lot like a typical 3rd person shooter in the moment to moment gameplay, but there are various aspects of the handling to make it obvious that you're piloting a vehicle, not just a dude in a suit.  The missions are also split down the middle, with half of them looking like they came from a simulation game - you're dropped into a large-ish open plot of land and given a military style objective (destroy these AA guns, defend this transport, etc.), while the other half are more like a typical shooter - a series of rooms and hallways full of bad guys with an objective at the end.  

 

I find this to be an interesting split, not just because as far as I can tell, it's a unique one, but also because the simulation half is basically a dead genre at this point.  There have been a couple recent revivals in extremely specific niches like hyper-realistic plane simulations.  I guess that free to play tank game exists, but nobody talks about it.  I certainly haven't played anything like this since... I don't know, Descent: Freespace?  I tried to play Mechwarrior 2 just to have a point of comparison, but it was too clunky and I couldn't deal with it.  That's another interesting thing about the genre mix - Armored Core and From Software games in general are known for being extremely complex and unapproachable, and it certainly looks that way when you put it next to other action games on consoles.  When you look it to the PC simulation games that make up the other half of its lineage though, it's remarkably streamlined and intuitive in comparison.  I consider it a successful "console" take on a very PC-centric genre.  You could draw the same comparison between King's Field and Ultima Underworld, which should make a lot of sense if you've ever tried (and failed) to get into the latter.

 

All in all I enjoyed the game just as much as I thought it would.  The loop of design robot -> kill stuff -> get paid -> design better robot is pretty satisfying.  Once you get a feel for the controls and what you can do with them, pulling off ace maneuvers in combat can be pretty fun too, something I didn't even get around to really talking about, but this post has already gone on way too long.  I can use the other games in the series as an excuse to talk about that and other things assuming anybody reads this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look forward to reading more stuff on this. Any chance that you might make this into a short blog on medium or the like?
 Would be easier to link this on facebook or twitter that way and I know a few people that are into the AC series (wait for that big change of style of play when you get to AC IV and V)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhhhh I used to love those games and still do a bit. Like, to the extent that I helped organize tournaments for the vs mode and ran one of the bigger fan forums for the games. They lost me after the PS2 -- as terrible as those controls were for you, I learned to play with them and got very used to them, so when they just completely stopped being a thing in AC4 and forward the combination of needing a new console and needing to completely relearn how to play lost me. Well, alongside massive gameplay changes, particularly underemphasizing the aerial game, where previously the three-dimensional maneuvering aspect had been one of the major appeals of the series to me.

 

I deeply hope that at some point From comes out with a PC Armored Core game that recaptures some of that magic and has online play. I think the odds are actually decent at this point, given their newfound success on the PC platform and Miyazaki's stated intent to revisit the series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, twmac said:

I look forward to reading more stuff on this. Any chance that you might make this into a short blog on medium or the like?
 Would be easier to link this on facebook or twitter that way and I know a few people that are into the AC series (wait for that big change of style of play when you get to AC IV and V)

 

 

Is that easy and free?  I suppose I could do that if you really think people would be interested in reading this stuff.

 

16 hours ago, Problem Machine said:

Ahhhhh I used to love those games and still do a bit. Like, to the extent that I helped organize tournaments for the vs mode and ran one of the bigger fan forums for the games. They lost me after the PS2 -- as terrible as those controls were for you, I learned to play with them and got very used to them, so when they just completely stopped being a thing in AC4 and forward the combination of needing a new console and needing to completely relearn how to play lost me. Well, alongside massive gameplay changes, particularly underemphasizing the aerial game, where previously the three-dimensional maneuvering aspect had been one of the major appeals of the series to me.

 

I deeply hope that at some point From comes out with a PC Armored Core game that recaptures some of that magic and has online play. I think the odds are actually decent at this point, given their newfound success on the PC platform and Miyazaki's stated intent to revisit the series.

Ah, I think we had this conversation on Slack a while back.  Have you considered revisiting the latter games now that some time has passed?  I can see the new controls being a very jarring change at the time for some:

 

dQy45Js.png

 

At this point though, I imagine the near universal proliferation of that control scheme must have caused it to seep into your brain almost by osmosis if nothing else.  Assuming you've managed to avoid console shooters entirely, even just playing Dark Souls has probably gotten you a lot more acclimated to the scheme than you were before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may at some point. There's a PS3 here which doesn't belong to me, but the roommate who it does belong to hasn't been back to the house in more than a year now for... whatever reason. I should pick up one of the relatively newer Armored Cores and Demon Souls when I get a chance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Medium is free and you can link it to your Twitter or Facebook account and you are rolling - it would also allow me to follow you and get notifications when you update. Just think of it as doing the same that you are doing on the forum (still post a link or copy/paste here) but it is easier to find for non-forum locals.

 

Any and all talk about Armoured Core fascinates me. I've  been a die hard fan of From Software since Otogi and Metal Wolf Chaos, so hearing more about their products is welcome as far as I am concerned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

designing mechs and duelling them with a friend was some good couch times back in the ps2 days. I would be all over an old school style AC for my PC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Armored Core: Project Phantasma (Playstation, 1998)

 

NjyFQEI.gif

 

Released a little under a year after the first game in the US (the turnaround in Japan was even shorter), this is a standalone expansion pack, featuring the exact same engine and basic gameplay, but new missions, additional parts, and a new mode which I'll get to later.  Technically you could play this game without having touched the first one, but it would probably be pretty tough to start from scratch, because what you're actually supposed to do is import your save from the first game to bring over all the parts and credits you accrued there.  The idea of an expansion pack on the Playstation is kind of wild - yet another PC concept adapted for consoles.  I wonder if it was sold for full price (whatever that was at the time).

 

I sure hope they didn't charge a lot for this, because in addition to not making any improvements to the engine or gameplay, the game is shockingly low on content, coming in at just 17 missions compared to the original game's 46.  There's a much stronger focus on story, with lots of voice acted (but in-engine) cutscenes, but it makes the fatal mistake of being a story in an Armored Core game (Nobody cares.  Nobody.) and in no way makes up for the reduction in mission count.  I would almost write this whole game off as an utter disappointment if it weren't for...

 

The arena mode, which really saves it.  If you think the mech you just designed is hot shit, there's no better way to prove that than to put it up against another mech built under the same rules.  Ideally that would be designed and piloted by your friend, but failing that, a ladder of 50 customized AI opponents to climb makes for a pretty good next best thing (not to mention a pretty good excuse to reuse the multiplayer maps, tee hee).  The arena went on to become a staple feature of the series and it's not hard to see why.  Banging up against a tough opponent, studying their weaknesses and countering them in your design, coming up with a particularly good design that meshes well with your style and bulldozing several ranks in a row... It's the design -> execute -> redesign loop in its purest form, and it fits the series like a glove.

 

It's not perfect, though.  The AI isn't very good, so in order to try to make the game challenging the upper ranks are filled with opponents who blatantly cheat, ignoring weight, energy and weapon type restrictions, which can be extremely frustrating.  Oh well, it's tons of fun even still, and they'll have 50 or so more chances to get it right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/23/2017 at 8:42 AM, twmac said:

Medium is free and you can link it to your Twitter or Facebook account and you are rolling - it would also allow me to follow you and get notifications when you update. Just think of it as doing the same that you are doing on the forum (still post a link or copy/paste here) but it is easier to find for non-forum locals.

 

Any and all talk about Armoured Core fascinates me. I've  been a die hard fan of From Software since Otogi and Metal Wolf Chaos, so hearing more about their products is welcome as far as I am concerned.

I'll probably post this stuff on Medium soon, but I'm a bit leery of it just because I have no idea what "public" means on that service and they don't seem to have any interest in explaining it.  Like if I make the pages public are they going to show up on the front page?  Is it going to promote them to random people who go to the "Gaming" section?

 

22 hours ago, Problem Machine said:

It will never not be hilarious that by far the best weapon in that game is a machine gun shaped like a hand that shoots five bullets at once called the WA-FINGER

WA-Finger.jpg

It also has the only in-game depiction of a human in the entire series up until (I think) the last game on the PS2.  When I was getting the footage for that gif above I even replayed that mission so I could capture this dumb gif:

 

z3c03Ef.gif

 

Not quite as hilariously bad or avatar worthy as it was in my memory of playing it a month or two ago, oh well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, I used to love Armored Core. Unfortunately as the games went on they kept pushing further into the twitch gameplay realm, and my reaction times got poorer. The last few I've tried have been so hectic and hard. Now I'm just left to wish for another Chromehounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Lork said:

I'll probably post this stuff on Medium soon, but I'm a bit leery of it just because I have no idea what "public" means on that service and they don't seem to have any interest in explaining it.  Like if I make the pages public are they going to show up on the front page?  Is it going to promote them to random people who go to the "Gaming" section?

 

 

Not sure about front page but if you tag it with Armored Core and gaming then yes, it can randomly appear in people's feed and could get recommended to people in emails. There is an option to make entirely private so that people can't get to it without a link.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Armored Core: Master of Arena (Playstation, 2000)

 

mZZ3MIl.gif

 

Another standalone expansion pack.  As the name suggests, From must have gotten a lot of feedback (rightfully) telling them that the arena in Project Phantasma was a great addition, because they went all in on the arena for this one.  Even the story is about the arena!  This time around there are 19 missions plus a (better balanced, more enjoyable) standard arena mode making it superficially comparable to the previous game, but that's before you consider the second disc featuring 8 "extra" arena ladders and a tool for making custom arenas of your own.  

 

On the one hand it makes me wonder how the data for a bunch of arena competitors - basically the list of parts used to build their mech, some AI settings, a short text description and a small pixel art emblem for each - could possibly take up enough space to warrant the manufacture of an entire second disc.  On the other hand, it's hard to argue with the actual value the disc provides.  There's a huge variety of stuff in there: specialized arenas limiting every competitor to a specific leg type, designs submitted by fans, editors for Japanese gaming magazines like Famitsu, designs based on the competitors in a tournament held for the previous game, the personal designs of From Software employees, and a murderers' row of competitors designed to be as challenging as possible.  The arena maker is interesting too, though I didn't really touch it myself.  I wonder if there's an underground community based on swapping memory card files with custom arenas on them somewhere out there.

 

Looking back on it, I think this might actually be my favorite Armored Core game.  As the most advanced iteration of the first generation it occupies a sweet spot in the series.  As an expansion to the first game that doesn't change the core ruleset at all, MoA is insulated from the piling on of complexity and cruft that inevitably comes from a long list of sequels.  At the same time, all of the most egregious balance issues from the previous games have been resolved, and the sum of all the parts from the previous two games plus a few new ones make for a huge array of viable options when it comes to designing your mech.  Put that next to the massive list of arena competitors that I spent the last paragraph raving about to test yourself against and you've got a winning combination.  

 

Plus, there's just something oddly compelling about the strange atmosphere created by the extremely stark visuals interspersed with bright, eye popping colors and really echoey sound effects of the first generation AC games.  There was an old Idle Thumbs episode where they talked about Dark Souls' visual design having a hard to describe and strangely appealing "starkness" to it.  I don't really get that vibe from Dark Souls, but I'm feeling it in full force here and I like it.  Maybe it’s just nostalgia for this era of games, but there was a certain dullness or malaise that started to set over the PS2 entries for me, and these first generation ones managed to avoid it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Master of Arena is fantastic, definitely one of the standouts of the series. The others, I would say, are Another Age and Nexus -- though Nexus has a nasty learning curve. Curious to see if you'll agree with these assessments as you move forward!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've started to put these up on Medium, as requested.  Feel free to share them with any friends who would be interested.

 

33 minutes ago, Problem Machine said:

Master of Arena is fantastic, definitely one of the standouts of the series. The others, I would say, are Another Age and Nexus -- though Nexus has a nasty learning curve. Curious to see if you'll agree with these assessments as you move forward!

I'm actually finishing up ACV and getting ready to move on to Verdict Day assuming the disc ever arrives, so I already know the answer to your question!  I'll have to leave you in suspense for now, though.  I will say that Another Age is a pretty interesting choice.  That's the expansion pack for 2, right?  That game seems to have a pretty low reputation among series fans from what I can tell. I'd be curious to hear some more detailed thoughts about those games from you as well.  Maybe when I get to them, eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very odd. My assessment is largely from playing a whole shitload of vs with buddies of mine, and AA is a standout there because it has probably the best battle arenas of any game in the series, a huge and fairly well-balanced parts list with a bunch of different viable builds, and a great soundtrack. AC2 was one of the most flawed games in the series, especially after the high of MoA, and AA did a ton to redeem it. Having a HUNDRED missions was pretty nice too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2017 at 10:39 PM, Lork said:

Armored Core: Master of Arena (Playstation, 2000)

 

mZZ3MIl.gif

 

Another standalone expansion pack.  As the name suggests, From must have gotten a lot of feedback (rightfully) telling them that the arena in Project Phantasma was a great addition, because they went all in on the arena for this one.  Even the story is about the arena!  This time around there are 19 missions plus a (better balanced, more enjoyable) standard arena mode making it superficially comparable to the previous game, but that's before you consider the second disc featuring 8 "extra" arena ladders and a tool for making custom arenas of your own.  

 

On the one hand it makes me wonder how the data for a bunch of arena competitors - basically the list of parts used to build their mech, some AI settings, a short text description and a small pixel art emblem for each - could possibly take up enough space to warrant the manufacture of an entire second disc.  On the other hand, it's hard to argue with the actual value the disc provides.  There's a huge variety of stuff in there: specialized arenas limiting every competitor to a specific leg type, designs submitted by fans, editors for Japanese gaming magazines like Famitsu, designs based on the competitors in a tournament held for the previous game, the personal designs of From Software employees, and a murderers' row of competitors designed to be as challenging as possible.  The arena maker is interesting too, though I didn't really touch it myself.  I wonder if there's an underground community based on swapping memory card files with custom arenas on them somewhere out there.

 

Looking back on it, I think this might actually be my favorite Armored Core game.  As the most advanced iteration of the first generation it occupies a sweet spot in the series.  As an expansion to the first game that doesn't change the core ruleset at all, MoA is insulated from the piling on of complexity and cruft that inevitably comes from a long list of sequels.  At the same time, all of the most egregious balance issues from the previous games have been resolved, and the sum of all the parts from the previous two games plus a few new ones make for a huge array of viable options when it comes to designing your mech.  Put that next to the massive list of arena competitors that I spent the last paragraph raving about to test yourself against and you've got a winning combination.  

 

Plus, there's just something oddly compelling about the strange atmosphere created by the extremely stark visuals interspersed with bright, eye popping colors and really echoey sound effects of the first generation AC games.  There was an old Idle Thumbs episode where they talked about Dark Souls' visual design having a hard to describe and strangely appealing "starkness" to it.  I don't really get that vibe from Dark Souls, but I'm feeling it in full force here and I like it.  Maybe it’s just nostalgia for this era of games, but there was a certain dullness or malaise that started to set over the PS2 entries for me, and these first generation ones managed to avoid it.

My friend and I played this game in vs. for a whole year of all-night sleep-overs. When I think of "video games" this is exactly what my brain wants to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so happy you're doing this. AC is one of my favorite series, and definitely the one I'm most nostalgic for. Something about selecting your own targeting radar and radiator subsystems screams "video games!" in the most Y2K way possible. When I look back on these games I wonder how all gaming didnt become about mechs ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Armored Core 2 (Playstation 2, 2000)

 

wuBld3C.gif

 

This game came out on the Playstation 2, a console that shipped with the DualShock 2 controller, featuring two analog sticks.  I think you can see where I'm going with this.  You could perhaps make an argument that Project Phantasma and Master of Arena were released into an ecosystem in which not everybody might have had DualShock controllers and that it might have made some sense to standardize to the lowest common denominator.  A weak argument, but an argument nonetheless.  There's no excuse here - it's beyond ridiculous that this game shipped without any way to use the analog sticks, even as an option.

 

And that sets the tone pretty well for the reception Armored Core 2 got at the time, I think.  Looking over Metacritic I see a lot of complaints about the controls and a general consensus the series was becoming stagnant by this point.  Fan reactions that I could find were a bit more forgiving of the controls, but seemed to share the feeling that this game didn't do enough to differentiate itself from its predecessors.  On briefly revisiting AC2 for this post I'm actually noticing a lot of subtle improvements to the controls and combat mechanics across the board, but subtlety was not what was needed at the time.  Graphically the game is vastly improved, looking the part of an early PS2 game, but I think that with a new generation of consoles people were expecting a generational leap in gameplay when this game is very much an incremental one.

 

One common complaint that I really don't understand is that the game is "slower".  Maybe the run speed on the ground is lower, but I wouldn't know.  Energy usage is far more lenient in AC2 than it was in previous entries, meaning you get to spend a much higher proportion of the time with your boosters engaged, effectively making the game move at a faster pace from what I could tell.

 

If I had to describe AC2 in one word, it would be "Subdued".   It still has an arena, which is still fun, though it's not the blown out extravaganza that it was in MoA.  The new Extension and Inside parts offer extra functionality like missile defense or the ability to drop mines, decoys and jamming devices which can be useful but fairly unexciting (well, not the mines.  Those are useless).  There's a new overheating mechanic, expanding what was essentially a rarely seen status effect in previous games into a more complete system with an associated radiator part that you now have to factor into your designs.  I can see people making impassioned arguments over whether overheating is something you should have to worry about in these games, or if that's taking the complexity too far... But there's no need for that in this case because as implemented here, overheating is almost never something you need to worry about outside of a few specific missions designed to push it.  It's all just sort of OK at best, inoffensive at worst.

 

I don't think AC2 deserves a bad of a rap as it ended up getting at the time. It's alright - a good game in the abstract, and far from the worst in the series.  The worst thing you can really say about it is that it doesn't change enough.  I think the reason why people are so down on it is that it just doesn't inspire excitement, which is what the series sorely needed in the transition between the PS1 and PS2.

 

Some odds and ends:

 

-Check out this passage from the in-game manual:

 

25MNhq8.png

 

Yes, you read that right.  The game literally tells you to cheese your opponents in the arena by picking a stage that screws them over.  Well, if you insist.

 

-If you've played this game, you probably think you know what the absolute worst design element in this game is, be it something to do the balance of AC parts or the combat mechanics.  I'm here to tell you that you're wrong.  It's actually the decision to make "New Game" the default option on the main menu.  There's just something about the sluggishness and ambiguity with which the game transitions from the splash screens to the title screen to the menu that  constantly leads to me accidentally picking New Game.  And once you've picked it you're locked in, requiring a full restart and another trip through those splash screens to get back to the main menu.  It's infuriating.  Seriously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha I remember the new game thing. Yeah that sucked.

AC2 was definitely slower than the PS1 iterations -- all of the PS2 versions were, to varying degrees. Or, perhaps I should say that fast ACs were faster in the AC1 generation -- heavier ACs were generally unaffected by the changes. It was probably a good change balance-wise, because the first games ran into the problem that heavy ACs were nearly OP because they could absorb so much punishment but then ended up being severely underpowered because the MOONLIGHT laser sword was so powerful it could still tear them apart like butter. Flattening the defense and mobility curves a bit helped a lot with that. AC2 and forward also use predictive tracking on the weapons, leading the opponent to make the shot hit if they maintain trajectory, which fundamentally changed optimal dodging patterns and forced them to slow projectile speed WAY down, which is probably also part of where that complaint came from.

I do think it's the weakest of the AC games I've played after Project Phantasma, but it was a day-one release on a new console so I think it's fair to give them a bit of slack there.

Actually, regarding the decoys and stuff, I don't remember if this was a thing in AC2/AA or it came into the game in AC3, but the competitive community noticed that decoys actually collide with projectiles. Usually this doesn't matter much, but grenade launchers have exceptionally large projectiles, so it actually became a very common tactic to bait out a grenade shot and drop a missile decoy right before it hit to trick your opponent into wasting ammo. It was especially effective vs quad ACs since they had to fire from the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Problem Machine said:

Haha I remember the new game thing. Yeah that sucked.

AC2 was definitely slower than the PS1 iterations -- all of the PS2 versions were, to varying degrees. Or, perhaps I should say that fast ACs were faster in the AC1 generation -- heavier ACs were generally unaffected by the changes. It was probably a good change balance-wise, because the first games ran into the problem that heavy ACs were nearly OP because they could absorb so much punishment but then ended up being severely underpowered because the MOONLIGHT laser sword was so powerful it could still tear them apart like butter. Flattening the defense and mobility curves a bit helped a lot with that. AC2 and forward also use predictive tracking on the weapons, leading the opponent to make the shot hit if they maintain trajectory, which fundamentally changed optimal dodging patterns and forced them to slow projectile speed WAY down, which is probably also part of where that complaint came from.

I do think it's the weakest of the AC games I've played after Project Phantasma, but it was a day-one release on a new console so I think it's fair to give them a bit of slack there.

Actually, regarding the decoys and stuff, I don't remember if this was a thing in AC2/AA or it came into the game in AC3, but the competitive community noticed that decoys actually collide with projectiles. Usually this doesn't matter much, but grenade launchers have exceptionally large projectiles, so it actually became a very common tactic to bait out a grenade shot and drop a missile decoy right before it hit to trick your opponent into wasting ammo. It was especially effective vs quad ACs since they had to fire from the ground.

Ah yes, the people's favorite, emergent gameplay!  An interesting thing about that phenomenon is that it wouldn't be possible if it weren't for another strange quirk of this series going all the way from the first one through to Last Raven: the complete lack of splash damage as a concept.  Shots either hit their target directly or they don't hit at all, no matter what it looks like.  I wonder what they were thinking with that.  It's especially odd given the outrageously oversized hit effects they started using from this game on.  Just look at those massive spherical explosions in the gif - they didn't need to be that way!

 

Anyway, I've noticed that these last couple of entries have started to veer in the direction of becoming fairly banal retellings of the history of the franchise, which is not what I wanted to do.  The plan was to try to use each entry as a jumping off point to talk about some unique aspect of the series and hopefully even spawn some discussion. I apologize if I've started to become boring!  I'm going to try to make a more concerted effort to correct that in future entries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's actually not entirely true about the splash damage. Most weapons with apparent explosions actually do have splash damage, it's just completely trivial compared to direct impacts, amounting to usually like 20-30 AP damage. However, some of the weapons in the PS1 games do notable splash damage: The large back-mounted grenade launcher not only does splash damage, but is primed to automatically detonate when it reaches wherever the opponent was when you shot it, so it relies on it. There's also the huge 4-shot 'nuke' missile added in Project Phantasma, which creates a gigantic explosion such that just dodging it normally is grossly insufficient and you need to figure out a way to safely block it against a chunk of terrain a reasonable distance away (or just outrun it until it runs out of gas).

 

Actually, in all likelihood splash damage was phased out in AC2 forwards for the same reason projectile speed was reduced, to make it still possible to dodge when weapons predicted against your movement vector.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh, I could've sworn I tried testing that.  I must have done it in one of the PS2 games and combined it with anecdotal memories of the PSX ones.  Just goes to show how large the possibility space created by the different ways to combine the parts that I could get through all these games without running into a situation making that obvious, but also how bad From has historically been at making interactions in their games intuitively readable.

 

For example, the Karasawa must not be one of those weapons with splash damage judging by the gif.  The explosion envelopes both MTs, but neither take damage (the hit indicator doesn't appear).  This is curious because from what I can tell, it's the exact same explosion effect used for the grenade launcher, which would surely do splash damage if anything did.  That's the kind of thing that might lead one to make the wrong assumptions if they're not careful...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now