Jake

Idle Thumbs 298: For You, Not Them

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Chris, I 100% get everything you're saying. And ultimately - why would you want non-job stuff to feel job-like? I completely feel that.

 

I mean I'm bummed as a listener. You guys are definitely my favorite show. But I also don't want you to burn yourself out more. I mean, if you keep the show and talk about Whatever, then I'll listen. If you talk about video games when you happen to play them, I'll still listen.

 

So... bummed, but supportive? 

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18 minutes ago, Chris said:

I'd rather be able to just play video games at the pace that I am personally compelled to for my own enjoyment, rather than often getting to the point on Monday evenings where I feel like I have to "cram" for the next day's podcast recording.

 

Ah, that makes sense - in fact I bet you brought this up when talking about the change; I occasionally miss some stuff depending on if I am listening at work or not.  As someone who has been playing Dragon Quest VII and Downwell exclusively for about a month now I would not like to feel forced to play something new each week.  Like I said I do enjoy the video game discussion mostly, but I will give the new format a shot since the reason I like Idle Thumbs is because you guys are observant in a way most podcasts aren't and not necessary because it is about video games. If you guys can apply that focus to stuff other than video games that will be cool, but as someone who doesn't watch too many movies or reads much fiction beyond Steinbeck I might end up dropping off.

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41 minutes ago, Remerbr said:

 

Honestly I just enjoy the video game discussion. You can talk about video game news and just talk about the games you play as you naturally play them. For instance I'm playing the new Resident Evil and I'd love to hear how you guys feel about the switch to first person, etc... You don't necessarily have to play it to have an opinion on it. And then if you do play it you can either reinforce that original perception or update your thoughts. And if you do decide to keep the tangents (which I still enjoy immensely) then at least change the opening theme from "Videooo gAAAAaaaaaaAAAmes" to "Randomm ConversaaaaAAAAtion".

FWIW there was a stretch of time when a lot of the stuff they talked about was games they hadn't played, and although I still enjoyed the podcast, I definitely didn't enjoy it much for its video game content, because mostly it was the Thumbs speculating about how they thought stuff worked and in most cases they were wrong, and it's like "if you had played this for 10 seconds all your questions would have been answered." I didn't mind it because I'd listen to the Thumbs say pretty much anything, but I know a lot of other people got pretty frustrated listening to the podcast at about that time, because if they wanted to hear people who didn't know what they were talking about speculate about a bunch of stuff, they could listen to basically any other video game podcast.

 

Anyways, I think the solution for all of this is for Chris to commit to only ever talking about Diablo II. Like, he wouldn't have to play it or anything, but that would just be the game he talks about each week. He's not allowed to talk about any other game. No pressure to play games, but we still get the game discussion. Problem solved.

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If the primary concern with the rotating lineup was losing listeners, and you're going to lose listeners either way, why not just go back to the rotating lineup if playing a video game every 3 weeks is too strenuous?

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I prefer listening to the Thumbs when they're talking about stuff they care & are informed about (or at least entertainingly uninformed) over the Thumbs in the period where they felt obliged to discuss games they'd only played 30 minutes of. As we all grow older, it behooves us to grow and change. As long as that involves blasting a pod into my ears, I'll probably listen, and once you guys grow out of it, that will be fine too, if a bit sad.

 

That said, I hope Sean comes back and/or you get some guests on more frequently because I think pure banter would eventually begin to wear thin without some source of increased diversity in input.

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44 minutes ago, Problem Machine said:

If the primary concern with the rotating lineup was losing listeners, and you're going to lose listeners either way, why not just go back to the rotating lineup if playing a video game every 3 weeks is too strenuous?

 

That wasn't the primary concern, but it did also happen. It allowed any given person involved in the podcast to not actually commit to a full extent, since at any point they could just decide not to show up that week. I don't think it's a good way to foster investment in a free-time project. Idle Thumbs (both the podcast and the larger website) only exist to the extent the people involved in it actually keep showing up consistently.

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That does seem a legitimate concern, but having regular guests helped keep things fresh. Perhaps a less informal arrangement, where guests are lined up and announced beforehand?

Well, it's your show anyway. I'm fine if there's not a lot of games talk generally, but I worry that with no focus at all it will be hard to direct the discussion somewhere interesting. Constraints are a big part of making good art

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I think you should at least try to have Sean on next week.  He'll have a ton of crazy stuff to say about RE7 (although he might make you play it anyway).

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31 minutes ago, Problem Machine said:

That does seem a legitimate concern, but having regular guests helped keep things fresh. Perhaps a less informal arrangement, where guests are lined up and announced beforehand?

Well, it's your show anyway. I'm fine if there's not a lot of games talk generally, but I worry that with no focus at all it will be hard to direct the discussion somewhere interesting. Constraints are a big part of making good art

 

We're trying to figure that out. We know we need an idea.

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Honestly, I haven't listened to an episode since the last time Spaff was on as a guest, but hearing that you guys aren't restricting yourselves to games will actually make me come back tbh.

I kind of said my piece about liking musical chairs for the template of the show, and I understand that that isn't feasible, but a pivot from games focused to culture including games is a change to the format that will encourage me to add you back into the rotation. I love this community and the people in it enough that I have continued to frequent the forums even w/o listening to the show, but I am excited to get back in to it.

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I just came here to say I approve of the decision to make a less games-focused show. Seems like a healthy thing not just for you but potentially (with your many game developer readers) the medium.

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I'll be honest, I kind of dropped off awhile ago and probably haven't listened to an episode in a good several months. That said, you guys were my introduction to video game podcasts and will forever hold a special place in my heart. I still count your original 50 episodes as the some of the best gaming related content I have ever consumed. I kind of had a sneaking suspicion that this was starting to become less of a naturally enjoyable thing and more of a chore as time has gone on and I don't blame you for wanting to shift focus. Maybe I'm off base here but it kind of seemed like as each of you moved away from game journalism and into game development, that initial passion just kind of slowly fizzled out (that and being on the journalism side of things probably didn't require nearly as much extra work on the podcast side since you had to play a ton of games regardless). Which, if that is the case, is totally understandable.

 

I wish you all the best with your future podcast endeavors and I hope you are able to get back to talking about whatever you guys are passionate about. Unfortunately, I'll probably be bowing out since I'm all about video games and don't really have any interest in most other media. But thanks for introducing me to podcasts, to video game forums, to this community, and to fucking LucasArts adventure games!

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Quote

 

Long-time listener, first-time caller.

 

You seemed really excited talking about toxoplasmosis (which I will from now on call "toxo").  I'd like to recommend a great book called Parasite Rex by Carl Zimmer.  It's a concise non-academic read that covers parasite evolution, behavior, and their place in the food chain.  It's fascinating to learn about the ingenious ways different parasites manage complex life-cycles through multiple organisms with simple behaviors and (debatably) no intelligence.

I think there is an untapped application in game design, particularly in AI.  Most intelligence in games seems to be based on insect-like nervous systems: routes and simple responses to stimuli, sometimes with a little RNG.  Parasites are far more proactive and stack simple behaviors with little decision making into elaborate results.  I always thought someone much smarter than me could make some really interesting AI models based on that.  Insect group behavior (as opposed to individual nervous systems) as well seems like a game AI goldmine.

 

I loved the last few episodes.  Mario theory-crafting might be the best thing I've ever heard in a gaming podcast, and "are bats birds?" almost got me in a traffic accident I laughed so hard.  From reading other posts, it sounds like this is an intentional pivot away from games.  I've always appreciated that you don't talk about games in a vacuum.  Though I hope that gaming remains at the core of the show, I'll be listening no matter what direction you guys want to take.

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21 hours ago, noiseredux said:

Chris, I 100% get everything you're saying. And ultimately - why would you want non-job stuff to feel job-like? I completely feel that.

 

I mean I'm bummed as a listener. You guys are definitely my favorite show. But I also don't want you to burn yourself out more. I mean, if you keep the show and talk about Whatever, then I'll listen. If you talk about video games when you happen to play them, I'll still listen.

 

So... bummed, but supportive? 

 

Other people have encapsulated what I said, better than I said it. I love you guys as podcasters and people way too much to suggest you should do the thing you don't want to do because I want it. I kinda feel like I'm losing a friend. In the way that Chris has found himself drifting away from games, in the last 6-8 weeks video games have become that much more important in my life as I've thrown myself into them with streaming and other stuff as a creative outlet.

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On 1/26/2017 at 4:00 PM, Chris said:

We're trying to figure that out. We know we need an idea.

 

For whatever reasons, the Idle Thumbs crew have tended to shy away from talking much about games they'd worked on.  Maybe there are reasons related to non-disclosure agreements or not wanting to step on the toes of former colleagues, but if it is just out of a sense of modesty and thinking people don't want to hear you go on too much about your own work, let me just say I'd love to hear you talk about that stuff.  I would guess there are lots of us readers who would love for you to do some shows about your experiences with Firewatch or Double Fine or Bethesda or Telltale.

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4 hours ago, Urthman said:

 

For whatever reasons, the Idle Thumbs crew have tended to shy away from talking much about games they'd worked on.  Maybe there are reasons related to non-disclosure agreements or not wanting to step on the toes of former colleagues, but if it is just out of a sense of modesty and thinking people don't want to hear you go on too much about your own work, let me just say I'd love to hear you talk about that stuff.  I would guess there are lots of us readers who would love for you to do some shows about your experiences with Firewatch or Double Fine or Bethesda or Telltale.

 

I'd probably be more likely to share specific experiences from game development while, say, guesting on somebody else's podcast. On Thumbs every once in a while I'll draw a comparison between something I observe and a similar thing in Firewatch, for example, but I think in terms of sustained discussion of games I've worked on I'd rather do that less commonly and on someone else's show where it's there for a purpose.

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If you guys arent really feeling it then I guess nothing we mention would add too much, however I will chime in for the sake of it :P 

Personally I love the game discussion, and esp any dev related a stuff that pops up. When the podcast is completely unfocused it tends to become more like background noise ( people chatting in an office a desk over and I retain none of it, and all those episodes blend into one ). Thumbs used to be a podcast I was excited to listen to each week, and would download and listen as soon as I got to work. Week in week out there seemed to be a lot of variance and i'd often pause and google what was being discussed, then re listen sometimes on the way home. Lately not so much....Its like here's a podcast where some people talk, and as entertaining as it can be, when I am thinking of what to listen to it has fallen down the list as I am not sure what I am going to get. 

I think guests is a great suggestion. Both the type that are ready and willing to talk about everything, as well as those who are good at pulling info out of you lot. ( pity seatle is so far away or you could try and rope Tom Francis in for a couple while he's stateside....crate isn't the same without him )

Either way I will keep listening ;) still a great pod!

 

And Nicks souls streams are great.

 

( apologies for bad grammar its a hot Saturday night in Melbs, and whisky is helping to keep it cool )

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On 1/19/2017 at 10:05 AM, I_smell said:

Saw this video this morning, and I thought I better share it with thumbs:
 

 

- Oh they mention it in the episode!!

 

I also posted it here on the 18th! I'm guessing that would be too late for my post to be where Nick (?) saw it though.

 

I actually haven't listened to the last 20 minutes of the 'cast yet, which I guess is where the discussion of the new style occurs (I came to the thread early because I wanted to post about how Selina Kyle doesn't literally get brought back from the dead by the cats in Batman Returns), but assuming I've gathered accurately from this thread what the plan is, I'm all for it. Talk about whatever you like, some of that being video games sometimes. I will definitely continue to listen. (And as a Kickstarter backer, I appreciate you trying new things out to keep it fresh and sustainable.)

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I'm running a few podcasts behind at this point, so I'm hoping this change has been going well? Anyway, I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm good with whatever you choose, and really happy to be able to contribute to the cast a little with a Twitch subscription.

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