Jake

Idle Weekend November 20, 2016: Electing Better

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On 12/1/2016 at 8:58 PM, Mangela Lansbury said:

 

We grew up in the same area, roughly! Though the county I grew up in went blue in 76 for Carter.

 

I'll address some of this in bullet points too, mostly with follow-up questions.

  • Outsider status has some understandable draw when our system of governance is so fundamentally broken, but I believe that some experience is necessary. I also believe that Trump's experience is largely a net negative, especially in matters of foreign policy. Having operated in a purely self-interested way for so long, Trump is accustomed to transactional relationships. You give someone this service or object, and you receive something you perceive as being greater or equal in value in return. I think this transactional basis for relationships with foreign governments is dangerous. For instance, we're training Afghani soldiers in an effort to bring stability to the region. We get very little from this effort -- in part because of our methods, and in part because that's just the nature of the relationship. It's not terribly transactional. We naturally don't get much out of it. We just do it. How do you believe that Trump's disruptive, outsider status-based transactional foreign relationship paradigm will benefit the nation? Put more broadly, how do you believe his business experience has prepared him for public service?
  • Trump is poised to destroy labor unions, both through judicial appointments and through administrative and legislative means. The Rust Belt labor forces that he whipped into a torpor with rhetoric about NAFTA (justifiably, since that was when Democrats ceased to be the party that represented them) were in the best shape because of labor unions. How do you believe his anti-union stance will help workers? To further the calamity his economic plans have, we have his tax plans and his seeming willingness to default on American debt. His tax plans won't provide meaningful immediate benefit to most of America, instead favoring large tax cuts on the highest earners. How do you believe his tax plan will benefit the common worker in a way that past similar efforts at trickle-down economics have failed? Alternatively, how do you believe his tax plan is meaningfully different from trickle-down economics? How do you believe that a default on American debt, which would be the natural end to Trump's stated intentions of not paying back certain debtors under certain conditions, would be beneficial?
  • Why is America the greatest country on Earth?
  • What is the material benefit of disbelieving Trump's rhetoric?
  • Georgia's economy relies on undocumented immigrants. In the early 2010s, Georgia adopted HB87, which created a hostile environment for undocumented immigrants resulting in an economic loss for the state of upwards of $100M (if I'm remembering right). In this way and through similar stories nationwide, undocumented immigrants have been shown to be vital to the operation of many industries and the continued functioning of essential infrastructure. Why do you consider undocumented immigration to be such a calamitous problem that must be addressed? Put another way, what net harm do you believe there is that outweighs the benefits of undocumented immigrants?
  • What radical ideas do you fear spreading to Western society, and in what way do you expect those ideas to impact your life?

This is perhaps a little probing, but I've tried to be thorough and precise in my questions so that I could potentially have something to follow up on in further discussion and better understand your point of view.

 

Hey - thanks for such a thorough post, as soon as I get a minute I plan to follow up!

 

Thanks to the rest of you too, I realize we don't see eye to eye but civility goes a long way and is a welcome change after such a long and brutal campaign cycle. 

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On 12/3/2016 at 9:37 PM, osmosisch said:

You have not explained anything, only made vague statements. You've also failed to address sunstantially any objection people had to your views.

 

Not correct; I gave very concrete examples as to why I viewed Clinton as the greater evil

 

 

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Concrete examples, that I (and presumably others) counterpointed with examples from Trump and / or his team. Which were then ignored, or dismissed as some kind of hysteria on social media ;)

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3 hours ago, Gorbles said:

Concrete examples, that I (and presumably others) counterpointed with examples from Trump and / or his team. Which were then ignored, or dismissed as some kind of hysteria on social media ;)

Yes it was obvious to me there was widespread hysteria on social media. Why is it so terrible to simply state that fact?

The objections I got to that had nothing to do with the facts; people just wanted to disagree with me because they misunderstand what my opinion is.

They think I am a right wing supporter of Trump; which I am not.

I have stated in my comments there are multiple issues with Trump; but he is in my opinion the lesser evil.

Obviously you believe he is the greater evil. So we have different opinions. Fine

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If it's so okay to have different opinions, why did you attempt to label people critical of Trump as angry people on social media?

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4 hours ago, Gorbles said:

If it's so okay to have different opinions, why did you attempt to label people critical of Trump as angry people on social media?

 

because many people were angry people on social media

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Why do you ignore when people offer actual real evidence of Trump doing bad things?

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On 12/8/2016 at 7:56 PM, Twig said:

Why do you ignore when people offer actual real evidence of Trump doing bad things?

 

I have responded; it's just that you and others dont like my views

I have clearly said multiple times that there are many issues with Trump; he is not ideal at all; far from it

I therefore agree in a general sense with those who have issues with Trump

even if I dont agree with many of their particular points

 

Trump is in my estimation the lesser threat to world peace today

If he follows through on what he said thus far he will be unlikely to push us towards war with Russia

So far his cabinet choices look good in that respect - even if there are multiple problems with them in other ways

In my estimation the avoidance of WW3 - which is what war with Russia and China would be - is paramount

The survival of human civilisation is more important than liberal sensibilities and having an opinion and pretty much everything else

 

Perhaps people here do not see the global situation as being as dangerous as I do?

 

We still dont know if he will be actually elected so you guys may yet get what you want

I wont believe he will actually govern until he gets through the electoral college and is inaugurated 

 

 

 

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But all your responses are just "you just don't like my views" and then basically accusing everyone of being unreasonable for expecting you to put more thought into why you disagree. "You just don't like my views" is not an argument.

 

Also: Trump is already pissing off China, and, as you say, he's not even inaugurated yet. WAIT AND SEE, WAIT AND SEE.

 

Survival of human race: like refusing to admit climate change is real, and nominating the CEO of ExxonMobil for Secretary of State, eh?

 

Meanwhile: Russia will gladly go to war. Are you blind to what they're already doing? Feeling more secure in its relationship with the US won't stop them.

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41 minutes ago, Twig said:

But all your responses are just "you just don't like my views" and then basically accusing everyone of being unreasonable for expecting you to put more thought into why you disagree. "You just don't like my views" is not an argument.

 

Also: Trump is already pissing off China, and, as you say, he's not even inaugurated yet. WAIT AND SEE, WAIT AND SEE.

 

Survival of human race: like refusing to admit climate change is real, and nominating the CEO of ExxonMobil for Secretary of State, eh?

 

Meanwhile: Russia will gladly go to war. Are you blind to what they're already doing? Feeling more secure in its relationship with the US won't stop them.

 

 

As I said there are issues with Trump and his in-coming administration; how often must I write that?

Climate change is one of those issues - I do not support denial of the impact of human industrial civilisation on the biosphere

My estimation of Trump as the lesser evil is not an endorsement of all his beliefs and policies and appointments

 

As to Trump's presidency - if it happens - we will see what unfolds; so wait and see; I agree with you there

 

My hope is he will behave true to form as a deal maker and endeavour to make deals with China and Russia et al

Along the way he will upset lots of people - guaranteed; especially the liberal media which reports his every move in negative terms

 

 

 

 

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so wait and see; I agree with you there

lol

 

I can't even with your trolling anymore. I hope you one day wake up and realize this isn't all a joke.

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4 hours ago, Athis said:

My hope is he will behave true to form as a deal maker and endeavour to make deals with China and Russia et al

 

See, this is a classic example of magical thinking. You're told that Donald Trump is a businessman, and he appears to be wealthy, so obviously he's a great deal-maker, right? That's how businessmen get wealthy.

 

Well... no, not really. Not only did Trump inherit a notable portion of his wealth from his father, both as a "loan" and as part of his estate, and not only would he be richer today if he'd just taken his entire inheritance and invested it in index funds in 1988, but almost all of Trump's successes come from business practices that are about gaming the rules and screwing over people who can't fight back, not "making deals." He used equity-for-debt swaps to avoid declaring the "income" of cancelled casino debt so that he could take it as hundreds of millions of dollars of deductions instead. He stiffed hundreds of small business owners because he knew they lacked the means to sue him for payment owed. Six of his businesses have declared bankruptcy over the past twenty years, with dozens more qualifying for the less legalistic terminology of "failures," and even Snopes admits that this marks him a perfectly average businessman. His best successes come from giving other people his money or his name to use, and the latter was in the process of being abandoned by Trump himself as little as two months ago. Even when we move to Trump's campaign, what we see are efforts to line his pockets by using his own businesses for campaign "to an unprecedented degree" and filling his cabinet with ground-floor supporters, high-rolling donors, and fellow millionaires from the far right, a total repudiation of his promise to heal a divided nation.

 

If we lay aside the evidence that already exists for how Trump plans to conduct the international affairs of the United States (bringing your daughter to a meeting with the hyper-traditionalist Japanese PM and trying to use diplomatic recognition of Taiwan as a bargaining chip with China are both rookie moves in the eyes of literally anyone in the know), how does the Donald Trump who we know from the above actions behave on the world stage? Will he squander America's wealth and diplomatic cachet in an attempt to make his mark? Will he claim that international rules don't apply to him because they don't benefit him? Will he leave smaller countries like Ireland or Poland to twist because it's more profitable for him to ignore their plights? Will he let the US, the world's largest economy, declare bankruptcy... which he's already floated as an option? Will he just use the presidency to enrich himself and reward his minions? Please, Athis, tell me, because I don't see a deal-maker here. I see a scam artist who uses and abuses people. Where are the deals?

 

If what you're saying here is that you want Trump to be a great deal-maker because it confirms your gut instinct about him, that's fine, I suppose. People are allowed to believe whatever they want. However, if your only proof of Trump's deal-making acumen is that he's rich and he got elected president, buoyed by your weirdly blinkered optimism, then you're basically making the argument that anyone who gets elected president is going to be a good president, because they were wealthy and savvy enough to get elected. No one is obligated to take such a position seriously, and it's not because they don't "like" it.

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Yeah, what has Trump done so far that you think is good?

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1 hour ago, TokyoDan said:

social justice warriors

 

hahahahaha

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Adam Clark Curry is a podcaster, an announcer, internet entrepreneur and media personality, known for his stint as VJ on MTV and being one of the first celebrities personally to create and administer Web sites.


Born: September 3, 1964 (age 52), Arlington County, Virginia, United States


I'm presuming this is the same Adam Curry, because his Twitter talks about Infowars. I wouldn't call this remotely a British source, nevermind a politically unbiased one :)

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Judging by those urls, you are citing Spiked, which is a UK magazine for edgy libertarian shitheads that deals in incredibly transparent fearmongering over pc culture (which they think is censorship), therapy and mental health concerns (which they think is coddling), and environmentalism (which they think is propaganda). You might as well be nodding along to Breitbart quotes.

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On 11/22/2016 at 11:55 AM, perfect gallows said:

Hi Rob and Danielle,

 

I really enjoy your podcast.  Thanks for putting so much of yourselves, your ideas and your time into it.  Almost without exception, each episode is a nice comfortable chair to fall back into and feel right at home. 

I really wanted to comment on this most recent episode, however, because of what happened with the Life Is Strange letter.

 

...

 

I guess I'm just a bit disappointed because after listening to Idle Thumbs, Three Moves Ahead and Idle Weekend, all from their respective first episodes, this is the first time I've ever felt let down in regards to spoilers.

 

I guess I'll still play Life Is Strange, the art style looks great, and I do believe that much of the heart of a story is in the telling, but I can't help reflect on what I'm missing out on knowing what's around the corner.

Still love the Idle pods network, it's like a second home.  Thanks and cheers.

 

Hi @perfect_gallows,

 

My name is James. I wrote that letter with LiS spoilers. The moment Rob acknowledged the spoilers, an incredible sense of dread poured over me. Up until the moment I heard him thank me for spoiler warnings, I hadn't even realized what I'd done. The whole letter was a sort of emotional release for me and I didn't do much thinking. I deeply apologize to you and everyone else I spoiled on a game I think is so beautiful. 

 

I hope you either have or will still play it. The narrative conceit is truly the vessel, not the end goal of LiS in my opinion and I think you might still be able to experience its most important messages and moments. Happy gaming.

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