Rilen

Nonviolent Ant Farms

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Hey fellow readers, I need your help. 

I'm trying to scratch a gaming itch, and having a lot of trouble finding what I'm looking for. I'm looking for game recommendations, as well as help defining the genre I'm looking for. I can take the post down or move it if this isn't the place to ask this, I couldn't find any subforum that seemed the ideal place to post it. 

 

I'm a Kickstarter backer for Clockwork Empires, but it's still too unstable in it's beta form to play indefinitely. I've messed around with Dwarf Fortress, but haven't really clicked with it. I'm coming around to Rimworld but hoping to wait till it's out of Early Access. I loved playing Caesar 3 and it's ilk when I was young, but they seem fairly janky now.

What do all these have in common? They are all sims/city builders with an independent AI component and the ability to focus largely on peaceful actions. Like Chris said in the RImworld stream, I really dread doing combat in building games. What I'm trying to find more of is games where you get to slowly grow an AI 'ant farm', helping the game's people along as they struggle and survive. I'm not sure what to call this when looking for more, and it's driving me up the wall!

Any suggestions, forum friends? 

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I had a good time with Banished, though if you are going to pick that one up I'd recommend going in completely blind.  I haven't played it in a while, but when I did there was a definite optimal strategy that kind of takes the fun out of the game once you know how it works, but until then it's very enjoyable.  

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I've been looking for more entries in this amorphous genre as well. I've been trying to find it via what I call "doll house simulators," or what could more generally be called "character based simulators." Something where you can influence the actors of the game, or just let them perform and see what happens. "Little Computer People".

 

To scratch this itch I've delved into Kingdoms, Kingdom for Keflings, Software Inc, Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, the 1998 Creatures games, Fable 2's real estate market, Stardew Valley, Terraria, Starbound, Minecraft. Most of these games focus on base building or survival, and intense management of economies and resources, which is not exactly the goal. 

 

I've not bought the Sims, I should just dive into that. It's that level of interaction I'm interested in. I'm just not enamored with the aesthetics of the Sims. 

 

"Ant Farm" is a great way of summing it up, because there is an implication of the actors of the simulation having agency to construct their own farms. It is a spectator sport.

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Startopia had some combat, but it's really basic, bad and infrequent. It's about the level of Theme Hospital/Park in how things behave so maybe not ant farm enough but I really enjoyed it. It doesn't have any direct control over characters, or well the Dungeon Keeper Imp level of control over your scuzzer droids.

 

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My solution would be to not wait till rimworld is out of early access and go with it. it is pretty amazing.

i tried Retro-pixel castles. now there is a game that you should wait till it is out of early access. it has a promising core, but needs to much work.

For older ones, maybe look at children of the nile, or you could brach into the anno games mayhaps.

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I think Zeus/Caesar 3/Pharaoh still hold up, and they scratch this itch for me. That said they clearly also show that they were made 15+ years ago.

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I also visited Space Base DF-9 to see what it offered for my Tamagatchi Doll house desires. I was amused, until grief parties came to destroy my doll house. 

 

I could buy into Nintendo's hardware to try something like Animal Crossing. Or, what was that novelty story-character game that came out early on the 3DS?

 

The new game "ECO" looks promising, in that it iterates on Minecraft by adding ecosystem simulations, economy and governance systems. But it's a survival base-building sim, not a doll-house RTS ant farm. 

 

I also considered watching Civ 5 play with AI only. A lot of solutions depend on modifying existing games to my desires. Which also is eased with a Windows machine, and I'm an obstinate Mac user. 

 

There is also the Paradox grand strategy games. Crusader Kings 2 being the obvious choice. But those games are not casual by any means, nor are they relaxing to play.

 

My desire for this sort of game comes from the end cutscenes for "Zelda Link to the Past" and the last level of "Toejam and Earl," where you get to see those worlds during peace-time, when everyone is happy and chilling. Playing adventure games seems like an obvious solution; but their bespoke and linear nature causes them to feel like oddly paced movies to me. As well as the proc-gen rogue-like revolution inspiring unrealistic expectations for myself. Some day, some one will release the ideal sit-com or cozey-mystery simulator. I could codify my weird thoughts into design documents, perhaps.

 

Apologies to Rilen if I'm muddying the waters.

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If you're looking into Animal Crossing, you could take a shot at Stardew Valley. That's out on PC and has vibes of both Animal Crossing and Harvest Moon.

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If you have a 3DS I would recommend Story of Seasons over Stardew Valley. Star dew makes you do mining & combat bullshit which were the parts of Harvest Moon I hated most.

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I'd recommend the opposite! Stardew Valley was my obsession for a whole week and I did nothing but play it. Meanwhile, Story of Seasons just feels slow and drags on and on in comparison and I've picked it up multiple times only to stop after an hour or so and not come back again for a while. And it's not so much that "slow" in and of itself is bad. I don't even think Story of Seasons is bad, either, not really. But after play Stardew, I just... can't.

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He pretty specifically asked for non-violent, and if that's something he wants, story of seasons is better for that. I don't think any of those games actually fits what he was asking for though.

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That's a fair point, although you don't have to engage with the combat if you don't want to.

 

Also yes I don't think Harvest Moon or Animal Crossing are ant farms.

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My apologies for taking the thread off rails. I don't think it's too off-center though... Although Doll House is very different than Ant Farm. Ant Farm always implies an RTS or Strategy type game. Doll House gets vague, it implies RPG, dating sim, adventure game.

 

I have indeed tried "Stardew Valley", I was excited, since I never did "Harvest Moon". It is good, the relationship quests are interesting. The PvE mine area was disappointing in the violence department. But over all I didn't keep playing it because it of the grind it requires.

 

I did enjoy the oldschool "True Love" visual novel for its relationship aspects. I've barely explored the huge world of visual novels, there must be some other good stuff in there.

 

I would very much recommend "Rimworld" its good to play in its early access state. And to just play it at the easier difficulty. Raids will still occur, but be very small and manageable for the most part. All the interesting character development and management will still be there. It has enough of the complexity of "Dwarf Fortress", and all the accessibility of "Prison Architect".

 

"Castles 2" I enjoyed as a kid, but it might be more in the 4x RTS zone than Ant-Farm zone. Looking at it now it resembles a lite version of CK2.

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I played a lot of Castles when I was younger, had a harder time getting into Castles 2. It certainly has an ant-farm feeling. There is violence, but it's largely non-participatory (you set up you armies, hit go, and then don't really have control after that.)

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PlasticFlesh, no muddying at all, this is like bumping into someone also rifling through record bins looking for antique field recordings. "I didn't know anyone else liked this!"

Love the suggestions, most of the first crop are things I've already tried. I think this might be one of those rare gaming offshoots that had a brief period of popularity beginning when computing power allowed for multiple independent 'ants' and stretching to roughly Startopia. In my memory that felt like the last of them for quite a while. And then, recently, there's a bit of a tiny resurgence going on, but most of it's still in development. 

I am learning Crusader Kings 2 with the help of a very eager friend who wants someone to crush in multiplayer, I think. Will check out the Anno games. 

 

Funnily enough the reason I started this post, that I couldn't play Clockwork Empires, has more or less resolved itself. The latest update stabilized it immensely and added a ton of new things that fit together. It's still in Beta, but I think it's getting into the 'cleaning up' phase rather than 'making things and checking they work together' phase. If anyone is interested in this genre I'd recommend checking it out as it scratches the itch for me better than anything has yet. It is still very much in development, however, so some might want to wait till it's release. If anyone likes early access or development pipeline stuff, however, they are an absolute joy to watch work. They communicate constantly on the forums, take ideas, fix bugs, and every week release a funny, interesting post about what their working on or quirks of the process, each week with a beautiful new art asset highlighting the thrust of the post. 

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PlasticFlesh, no muddying at all, this is like bumping into someone also rifling through record bins looking for antique field recordings. "I didn't know anyone else liked this!"

 

Such endearing vindication!  B)

 

Lazy Game Review youtube recently made a compelling piece on Sim Earth

 

 

There is also a indie windows game called "XenoBloom" where you manage a one screen alien garden. I've never jumped into it, though.

 

I also enjoyed the "Darwin Pond" evolution simulator, way back when. 

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Oh my God, SIm Earth looks hilarious. I love the Gaia Window sooo much! Why is she wearing lipstick? 

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I also considered watching Civ 5 play with AI only. A lot of solutions depend on modifying existing games to my desires. Which also is eased with a Windows machine, and I'm an obstinate Mac user. 

 

If you're going to do this, watch the Civ Battle Royale. 63 AI civs on a giant map with regular narration.

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Im a big fan of Caesar 3 too and Im really missing a modern successor.

Banished is pretty fun but I wish the ai came with a bit more personality like in DF, even kust a sierra style thought blurb would be nice.

DF is a super rewarding game when/if it finally clicks but honestly I think of you want to play something like the older greats then revisit Pharoah or Emperor. I think they're just a little more refined than the others.

Sigh I really wish someone madea decent meld of the sierra style city builder and Black & White. Pretty sad that C4 was so meh as well.

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If you're going to do this, watch the Civ Battle Royale. 63 AI civs on a giant map with regular narration.

 

Thanks for the recommendation! I checked it out, it is super cool!

 

In pursuit of my "doll house" game, I played some more of the beginning of "Else heart.break()". It has the "real time" adventure-game aspects of Shenmue, and Elder Scrolls game like Skyrim, or The Last Express that is exciting. But the free-rotating 3d camera disorients me to the point of illness, and often scenery objects like whole buildings will occlude between the player avatar and the camera in some heinous ways. This makes it super uncomfortable to advance through the game.

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Hey anyone interested in this topic! Clockwork Empires, the game that orignially inspired to start this thread, is finally launching with 1.0 tomorrow on Steam! I have greatly enjoyed playing through alpha and beta, and I think all of you weirdos would dig it. I haven't played it in the last month to surprise myself with the finished product so I have no idea what the final balance and tuning tweaks were. But everything I've seen from these fine fellows so far has been great, and they support their games for an incredibly long time for free (see: Dredmor). 


Here's a trailer for the release!

 

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Last week I picked up Dragon Quest Builders on the PS4 and I love it. It has the griddy detail of Minecraft but a lot of the grind is taken out. So gameplay focuses on just tweaking your build, and resource gathering. A bunch of NPCs populate your town as you build. The main quest seems meaty, and progresses in a quest - mob fight - quest - boss fight structure. It's split into 4 chapters in different biomes where you build a new castle hamlet in each biome. Then you unlock the free mode. It's basically Hyrule Town Simulator, the game. Including knock off music of all the Zelda Snes music. I'm all in on this. Casual, cute, creative, contemplative.

 

 

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