Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Vader

The Next President

Recommended Posts

I'm drunk, and angry right now, but fuck everyone that equivocated between the two parties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sickened. Is this real? Trump, a grossly underqualified hate-machine, wins against Clinton? Rape culture in person has taken a seat in the White House. Wake me up in four years when the world has been restored to sanity. I have to eat my hat here, because not in a million years did I think people would actually go for such an obvious buffoon, the person most removed from any sense of humanity or what 'ordinary people' live like. The upshot is that none of his insane plans will work out (politically or economically) and he'll be blocked at every turn by both the Democrats and the GOP, who will want him ousted and made harmless and checked as soon as possible. His own campaign managers took away his goddamn Twitter account last weekend, when he proved incapable of managing it. They're not about to let him blow up the world. Good lord, humanity is really, really, really showing its dumbest and most egregious face this last year. First shooting down the Ukraine trade agreement in Holland, then Brexit, and now the worst of 'em all: Trump. How much more proof do we need that as a whole, we are far too susceptible to populist bullshit for any sort of direct democracy? It's not just the president that needs to be checked: it's us. It's people. We cannot be trusted. We cannot choose the right thing. We are pathologically incapable of resisting the call of powerhungry madmen and seeing the bigger picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay this sucks.

But don't give in to despair. We can figure this out. Just need to process it first. Most importantly, we need to support our women and LGBT and african-american and immigrant and minority friends as much and as frequently as possible. Create inclusive spaces and art. Practice empathy.

Then go out in 2018 and vote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Roderick said:

The upshot is that none of his insane plans will work out (politically or economically) and he'll be blocked at every turn by both the Democrats and the GOP, who will want him ousted and made harmless and checked as soon as possible.

 

This is likely true, but I think it also needs to be a defined strategy by opposition leaders, protesters, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt the Republicans will fight him a whole lot now that he won. It's totally different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't they be in a stronger position to voice dissent now that the election is over? They're out of "whatever it takes to beat the Democrats" mode. Or am I missing something? 

 

Anyway, another dreadful morning. Good job, world. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, much in the vein of the reaction to Brexit in the UK, I fear for violence against Mexicans, muslims and immigrants now that Trump has won and his supporters feel they are justified in 'taking back the country'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, James said:

Wouldn't they be in a stronger position to voice dissent now that the election is over? They're out of "whatever it takes to beat the Democrats" mode. Or am I missing something? 

 

Anyway, another dreadful morning. Good job, world. 

 

Half the country just showed that they agree with Trump. Why would the GOP try to stonewall him now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Roderick said:

Also, much in the vein of the reaction to Brexit in the UK, I fear for violence against Mexicans, muslims and immigrants now that Drumpf has won and his supporters feel they are justified in 'taking back the country'.

 

Also much in the vein of Brexit, I wonder are there going to be stories of people who didn't think their vote would matter and didn't really want to vote him in but gave their vote to Trump anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Roderick said:

Sickened. Is this real? Trump, a grossly underqualified hate-machine, wins against Clinton? Rape culture in person has taken a seat in the White House. Wake me up in four years when the world has been restored to sanity. I have to eat my hat here, because not in a million years did I think people would actually go for such an obvious buffoon, the person most removed from any sense of humanity or what 'ordinary people' live like. The upshot is that none of his insane plans will work out (politically or economically) and he'll be blocked at every turn by both the Democrats and the GOP, who will want him ousted and made harmless and checked as soon as possible. His own campaign managers took away his goddamn Twitter account last weekend, when he proved incapable of managing it. They're not about to let him blow up the world. Good lord, humanity is really, really, really showing its dumbest and most egregious face this last year. First shooting down the Ukraine trade agreement in Holland, then Brexit, and now the worst of 'em all: Trump. How much more proof do we need that as a whole, we are far too susceptible to populist bullshit for any sort of direct democracy? It's not just the president that needs to be checked: it's us. It's people. We cannot be trusted. We cannot choose the right thing. We are pathologically incapable of resisting the call of powerhungry madmen and seeing the bigger picture.

You forgot the worst one in my opinion: the FARC peace treaty referendum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am really saddened by all my friends that are spouting so much anger and blame right now. I understand the need to vent, but they are declaring they know exactly what happened and who is to blame. This is not how we win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Cordeos said:

I am really saddened by all my friends that are spouting so much anger and blame right now. I understand the need to vent, but they are declaring they know exactly what happened and who is to blame. This is not how we win.

 

This is exactly the reaction I've been seeing.  Whenever my staunchly liberal friends go on rants like this, trying to blame everyone and everything it's no wonder liberal viewpoints are so reviled by those who would otherwise be sympathetic but don't hold them at the time.  It's easy for people who live in cities with public transportation, garbage removal, and so on to vote for having the benefits of government involvement in their daily lives (which is again what happened), but if you put yourself in the shoes of rural America the government is really only something you interact with on a need to basis and usually in a way that will cost you money or prevent you from doing something you've become accustomed to.  I don't think it's that hard to see why people who live in these kinds of places, Trump's major source of support, would vote against larger government at any cost, and I think that is the concern that the democratic party failed to address, particularly in the rust belt.  My biggest concern at the moment is how Trump's leadership will affect press freedoms.  If he does the things he's been claiming, and his personal history would suggest, regarding "opening up the libel laws" I don't think it's a far way to go from that to a situation where politicians can sue news outlets to have damaging stories taken down even if they are in the public interest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that so much of what he said during the election were out-and-out lies, I guess we have hope that he never intended to enact any of his silly plans and he was just lying about that to get votes as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think co-opting Trump's plans and the Republican platform may be worth considering. They are going to over-extend so demanding inclusion of Progressive goals may be the way to go. I don't want to spend four years complaining that the leadership doesn't represent my interests; I'd rather mobilize a very vocal demand that they address our needs as part of the implementation of their plan. I want to make it known that I expect this Wall to benefit everyone; and if it doesn't then I'm going to rub their nose in their own shit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Dewar said:

Given that so much of what he said during the election were out-and-out lies, I guess we have hope that he never intended to enact any of his silly plans and he was just lying about that to get votes as well.

 

This is what I'm banking on happening.  If he actually attempted to put into practice even a fraction of what he claimed to want to do, I can't imagine it wouldn't lead to impeachment.  Presidents have been tried for doing far less.

 

My main hope is that this slap in the face will finally get BOTH parties to get their shit together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's basically what wild-eyed philosopher Slavoj Zizek said: he hoped that Trump would win as a shock to the system. We'll see. I'm slowly getting used to the idea. The world is one big cartoon SNAFU right now anyway. It's just baffling how this could happen after eight years of Obama that, at least on a symbolic level, seemed a forward move towards liberal values and inclusiveness.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not so sure he'll be stopped really on anything he truly wants to do.  Republicans control the senate, house, presidency, and when Trump puts up his own nominee the supreme court as well.  Now that they finally have the control of the entire government, what they've been driving at for so long, I don't see any amount of those groups banding together to stop the most popular man in their coalition.  I don't see a republican house, senate or judiciary taking any serious steps to stymie his attempts to get his agenda across, and he'll be more than willing to put things like abortion restrictions, anti-LGBTQ propositions, etc on virtually any piece of legislation to get some deal done.  The question, really is how effectively will democrats be able to filibuster these attempts or take back senatorial control in upcoming elections, or even limit the damage.  Let's not forget that while many of the republican establishment are wary of trump, his running mate who is estimated to have a lot of power to set agendas in the administration is in lock step with the republican platform on social issues, and from his governorship in Indiana has shown his willingness to pursue that agenda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, itsamoose said:

I'm not so sure he'll be stopped really on anything he truly wants to do.  Republicans control the senate, house, presidency, and when Trump puts up his own nominee the supreme court as well.  Now that they finally have the control of the entire government, what they've been driving at for so long, I don't see any amount of those groups banding together to stop the most popular man in their coalition.  I don't see a republican house, senate or judiciary taking any serious steps to stymie his attempts to get his agenda across, and he'll be more than willing to put things like abortion restrictions, anti-LGBTQ propositions, etc on virtually any piece of legislation to get some deal done.  The question, really is how effectively will democrats be able to filibuster these attempts or take back senatorial control in upcoming elections, or even limit the damage.  Let's not forget that while many of the republican establishment are wary of trump, his running mate who is estimated to have a lot of power to set agendas in the administration is in lock step with the republican platform on social issues, and from his governorship in Indiana has shown his willingness to pursue that agenda.

 

I disagree that depending on what the Democrats can do is the best option. We need to force the Republican platform to represent us imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While that would be nice, one look at the GOP's platform tells a very different story, at least on social issues.  A few of the big ones are

  • Ban abortion with constitutional amendment
  • Define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman nationally, constitutional ban against same-sex marriage
  • "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service", no women in combat roles
  • No federal student loans, instead insure private loans
  • More oil, natural gas drilling, reject international climate accords
  • Undo Iran agreement, walk back Cuba
  • remove contribution cap for political donations
  • require state issued ID for voting
  • no stem cell or other research with religious objections

There are a few more, but those positions I feel like aren't things that the republican party will be willing, or in some cases able to negotiate on as the nature of some of the proposals don't afford any kind of a middle ground.  Now that republicans have control over the presidency and the legislature, many of these proposals can become reality, particularly with a Trump who is likely to surround himself with sycophants and yes men.  Remember that decisions like Obergefel v. hodges, Roe v. Wade and others were based on there not being explicit language about the issue in question in the constitution, and that is what is really at stake here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how to go about doing it (actually I have no initial ideas of how to go about doing it), but I want to really consider whether or not we can influence the Republican platform. The Democrats are pretty much a third-party for the next four years while Conservatives and Trump-supporters negotiate between themselves. So I want to look for opportunities to throw weight when it seems like a good idea to do so.

Let me take a stab at your  list (sorry about the crazy formatting):

  • Ban abortion with constitutional amendment
  • Define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman nationally, constitutional ban against same-sex marriage
  • "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service", no women in combat roles

            -All of these can be framed  as unnecessary government regulation.

 

  • No federal student loans, instead insure private loans
    -Bring up the benefits of the G.I. Bill.

 

  • More oil, natural gas drilling, reject international climate accords

          -Talk about how much demand there is in the rest of the world for new energy technologies that we have the infrastructure, and ability to develop and sell. Regardless of whether or not climate-change is real, the other countries are buying so we can export.

 

  • Undo Iran agreement, walk back Cuba

     -With Cuba, play up the fact that other countries can vacation there, a ban is unnecessary government involvement. If this is a free country than we can go to whatever country we want.
     -With Iran, it might be something as simple as the same deal being renegotiated by the Republicans so they can get some credit for it (seems like a long-shot on this one really).

 

  • remove contribution cap for political donations
    -I mean, Trump was a populist candidate with little funding. BUT political donations could be framed as the political elite and the media trying to decide elections.
  • require state issued ID for voting

         -Play up the convenience of early voting and automatic registration. Those are things that should apply to everyone. Mention that the huge turnout was the reason this election went so well for Republicans.

  • no stem cell or other research with religious objections
    -Unnecessary government  involvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, clyde said:

         -Play up the convenience of early voting and automatic registration. Those are things that should apply to everyone. Mention that the huge turnout was the reason this election went so well for Republicans.

You sure about that? I thought I read the voter turnout was really poor this year.

I don't get having to wait in line for hours btw, or not being able to vote because you're working. That stuff shouldn't happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, eot said:

You sure about that? I thought I read the voter turnout was really poor this year.

I don't get having to wait in line for hours btw, or not being able to vote because you're working. That stuff shouldn't happen.

 

No, I am not sure about that.

This claims it is so though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cordeos said:

Nixon did pass the EPA

 

in a related note Trump is going to let a climate-change skeptic to lead the EPA transition, so cool.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/?wt.mc=SA_Twitter-Share

 

Progressives need to start looking locally, this vote once every 4 years thing is for the birds. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×