Esports Today 11/3/15: World's Greatest

[Rob Zacny]

Esports Today November 3, 2015:



World's Greatest
Rob and Andrew dive into a week of championships. Did KOO Tigers let an opportunity slip through their fingers? Envyus firmly ensconce themselves at the top of CSGO at DreamHack, while Heart of the Swarm StarCraft ends with some whimpers at BlizzCon opening week.

StarCraft, League of Legends, CSGO

• Listen on the Episode Page
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Opening Segment: League of Legends

18:12 - CS:GO

29:29 - StarCraft

44:19 - Esports Tomorrow

 

Crib Sheet

 

SKT vs. KOO:

VOD /

VOD

Envyus vs Na'Vi, Dreamhack Cluj Napoca

, WCS Round of 16

[sclpls]

I liked Andrew's point at the end of the League World Finals segment about the unflashy things veterans bring to the table that the casual fans don't always appreciate. You see the results of these kinds of superficial takes (not that I have a super sophisticated mind for e-sports or anything, just to be clear) on reddit all the time, where the team/player that just won the match is the best in the world, and whoever lost is garbage. But there's a reason certain veterans are so celebrated by other players, and it has to do with that quality where you are bringing out the best qualities in other people you play with. But that sort of stuff isn't at all easy to recognize by just watching a match, and so some of the best aspects of a player often get overlooked.

[Jolly0451]

Small Corrections on the Rain V Polt series commentary, despite Terrans using Mech in TvZ and TvT, Polt's style of Bio play is still as standard as it gets and is the predominant style of Terran versus Protoss. Its not really old fashioned at all, Polt did a 13(12scvscout) reaper fast expand into 3 Rax which is the most safe and standard build in Starcraft 2 across all matchups. Secondly, Polt actually never parade pushes his units across the map or SCV Pull's, instead he uses "Safety Rallies" where he sets his units to go to the spot equidistant to his expansions before loading them in Medivacs to boost them across the map during the mid game to harass. The reason why Mech play isn't viable in the matchup is due to Zealot Charge/Immortal's just beating Mech compositions flat out. Terrans either play to drop Bio like Polt or Maru or you hit a SCV timing pull because there are no other options that work consistently. Good show on the whole though.

[arde]

Thanks for another great show, guys! I'd like to give some feedback on your CS:GO coverage. As I've understood, the hosts are considerably more into League, Dota and StarCraft and this clearly shows - both in terms of time dedicated to covering major events and the quality of that coverage. For instance, some major talking points were missed by this episode: phenomenal performance by G2 (beating VP and very nearly beating Envy in the triple-overtime semifinal), Luminosity besting Fnatic in a BO1 and gaining Legend status, and TSM dropping in quarterfinals. I feel like the coverage would greatly benefit from having more regular guests (or a single semi-regular guest) who are more deeply involved in CS. Getting some major caster or analyst to appear as a guest on some episode would be amazing. Don't take this the wrong way, I love the show and enjoy the CS coverage, but just wanted to point out some areas of improvements to think about.

[Corelli]

Frankly, I think KOO has basically had one way of playing the game that they've been really good at the whole season, which is to play exceptionally passively for about 30 minutes then winning via late game macro and teamfights, and SKT is about the worst team you can play that style against.

 

It doesn't hurt that SKT had arguably the best toplaner, midlaner, and jungler (!?!) playing at worlds.

 

Also, there are only two repeat champions (unless you're counting SKT's coach, kkoma): Faker and Bengi.

 

With regards to Faker in season 3, you have to remember that season 3 worlds was primarily won on jungle/mid synergy. If you go back and watch those games, you'll see Bengi basically camping the midlane and warding for the midlane constantly. Season 5 was much more toplane focused, and not just on SKT - all the successful teams had great toplaners who were given a large share of their team's gold and asked to carry.

 

Interesting Faker stat: Faker actually received the smallest percentage share of gold of any mid on the teams that made it out of groups, but did the most percentage damage of any mid. My take? It may not have been as flashy as season 3, but Faker absolutely dominated.

[Badfinger]

Corelli, I pretty much agree with you. KOO is the team that pioneered Juggermaw, a strategy that wins late/super late game. They have good enough map control and warding (this is doing them a disservice, they are the 2nd place team at worlds, but we'll say good enough), but their strength is winning an immaculately danced teamfight at 40 minutes and breaking the back of someone who was even or possibly ahead because their positioning and teamfighting were superior. It turns out SKT is better at that throughout the whole game, and has multiple lanes capable of breaking the game open. Pray is a great positional carry, Hojin shines on certain patches (Lee Sin patches), but KurO is not in the otherworldly class of mid laners. Smeb is the only one (I feel) who can just heave the rest of the team on his back and demand a victory from the other team.

 

I can't believe we're having this conversation about Bengi when 6-8 months ago people were demanding he be replaced because he was a tire fire in the jungle. I would for sure take KaKAO over Bengi. I'd maybe take a couple other junglers over him too, but he's never been about style and flashy play. He's always been about warding the hell out of the jungle and solo lane synergy. Bengi improves when you have two solo lanes that are monsters. I think Marin had a better year than Faker this year. I think Faker is a better player, but Marin had a better year. Faker pioneers champions. He is literally unbannable. It's also funny to hear Faker be referred to as "the old man" because he's 19 years old.

 

So, this is a criticism, but please understand that it is born out of my own neuroses and is my fault for hearing it and not yours for saying it but if I don't yell into the void on the internet I'll explode, sorry in advance:

 

Rob, SK is in the EU and got relegated after a horrendous summer split. SKT is the team that just won Worlds.

[Corelli]

 Yeah, Bengi is a really weird case. Montecristo calls him streaky, and I think it's true. There was a point during the regular season where he was bar none the worst player on SKT and close to being replaced by T0m, but to my eyes he was the best jungler at worlds this year, better even that Clearlove who I thought was maybe the best jungler in the world up until that point. I Just don't know what it is, but Bengi is going to have two champion skins now and the only other person who has done that is Faker, the best player in the history of the game.

 

 

I can't believe we're having this conversation about Bengi when 6-8 months ago people were demanding he be replaced because he was a tire fire in the jungle. I would for sure take KaKAO over Bengi. I'd maybe take a couple other junglers over him too, but he's never been about style and flashy play. He's always been about warding the hell out of the jungle and solo lane synergy.