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Idle Thumbs 229: Sneaking for Carl

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Idle Thumbs 229:

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Sneaking for Carl

This week we deal in fear. Danielle (who is fearless) finds a new horror game love in SOMA, Nick's time with Metal Gear Solid V comes to the confusing and bleak end he feared was there all along, and Jake is feared lost, last seen entering a ghost house of his own creation. Chris fears a hedgehog made entirely of pinky fingers, and we think that's fair.

Games Discussed: SOMA, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, Super Mario Maker, Undertale

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Here's Bomb Voyage, and holy shit, how the fuck is anyone expected to be able to do this kind of playing?

 

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The title "Sneaking for Carl" has me full of anticipation.  Which Carl?

 

Carl the Dog? Karl Kassel? Carlos Calcium?

 

I'm enjoying the time it takes to download.

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Chris not knowing about Soma's underwater setting isn't too surprising, as Frictional kept it under wraps for a while themselves. When the game was first announced, they had some screenshots of a broken-down sci-fi facility, and sisn't really say much more about it. I think it was around a year later (or more) that they released another screenshot or two showing that, hey, the facility is at the bottom of an ocean!

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Just gotta step in and confirm that weird Ren & Stimpy Sonic is definitely already an idea.

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Y'know, I never saw the Elise part of that after all these years. And it's perfect.

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The songs in MGS V are definitely master tracks. The Man Who Sold the World is a cover, true, but it was released by Midge Ure (singer for Ultravox) in 1985.

 

That being said, I'm using Danger Zone as my entrance theme:

 

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The way I've felt about Metal Gear Solid stuff and my admittedly limited (but non-zero) experience with a fair bit of genre-fiction anime is that it's "busy but shallow". There is a lot of detail, but not a lot of depth. I sort of think of it as young adult literature. MGS is totally remarkable for how long winded it is without saying much. MGS3 for me is the most successful, because of The Boss' actually relatable sacrifice at the end that makes it actually work and have some emotional resonance that is both relatable, but not explicitly stated. 

 

It's super hard to say this without sounding very judgmental, so first let me say 1 luv to all good peoples, and no judgement on loving what you love. I'll totally cop to enjoying a lot of television sci-fi, and my favorite games are the Black Isle, Origin Systems, and Obsidian school, so I'm not getting all highfalutin on yous. I feel like there is some elemental difference in the way you experience narrative through interaction, than just reading or watching. I feel even the games I love would land on the low end of middlebrow, but the act of interaction changes that. 

 

I always hold up Kentucky Route Zero as the best example of narrative sophistication in games, again not in the sense of "oh my, what high art" but effectively communicating a layered emotional experience. 

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I just misheard something in a hilarious way just now! I thought Chris said Parachute was an online betting brand and that they have sheeps. I then realized what Chris actually said...but the idea of gambling sheep in Venice Beach made my day!

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I made a post in last week's thread where I commented on the dichotomy between gushing about MGS V being GOTY when it was preceded by consternation over the grossness of how a lot of the characters are portrayed. It probably came off as more accusatory than I would have liked, because it was a coalescing thought in my brain that I wanted to get out before I forgot it, and Thumbs discussion is specifically what helped me form that thought. I heard this week's episode, saw a lot of the same thoughts I had kicking around in everyone else's head, and then saw Chris suggest referring to this episode in reference to my comments. So that's cool and good!

 

I read this article on the Verge, and while I don't fully agree with all the thoughts (and titling it "I Would Hate MGS V..." is click-bait), it definitely expounds on some of what I'm trying to express. I don't mean to specifically pick on Metal Gear, because I'm thinking of gaming at large, but it's such a big and obvious target and definitely guilty of multiple transgressions, one of which is being an amazingly coded video game layered over with non-amazing stuff.

 

What I'm driving at is MGS V is inevitably going to be GOTY for multiple major gaming outlets, because the way it plays is incredible. Those outlets will wring their hands over all the gross shit in the game at the same time they're lauding the highest praise. But once it gets those praises and labels, it's telling everyone as long as your mechanics are good we'll look past your other flaws. No game is flawless, but it'll get whitewashed. Conversely, Danielle's GOTY for last year was Alien: Isolation. It was mostly recognized as being good, but looked past in most places because it was mechanically flawed. It's faults were coding, pacing, gameplay stuff. It's been talked to death, but in some ways that makes sense for games because regardless of message you have to play them, and that gets looked at in a different way than things layered over mechanical excellence. I'm horribly guilty of this every year in another way, because so many of my favorite games involve brutally murdering thousands and thousands of people and things and I barely give it a thought. That's a third conversation, maybe.

 

This is long, rambly, and I had to walk away for a couple of hours and came back mid thought. I'm asking how we get to a place where we praise and criticize mechanically superior games with aesthetic issues in the same way we do for games that are mechanically flawed. How do we recognizes MGS for its technical excellence without allowing it to walk away scot free at the end of the year? Should I care?

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On a lighter note!

 

Fun with Mario Maker Custom Voice - DMX Goomba

 

 

 

I just misheard something in a hilarious way just now! I thought Chris said Parachute was an online betting brand and that they have sheeps. I then realized what Chris actually said...but the idea of gambling sheep in Venice Beach made my day!

 

I heard betting again this week, too.

 

Fanduel will be the death of me.

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I just misheard something in a hilarious way just now! I thought Chris said Parachute was an online betting brand and that they have sheeps. I then realized what Chris actually said...but the idea of gambling sheep in Venice Beach made my day!

 

Every time Chris reads the Parachute ads I think he'd talking about a gambling website.

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I like Chris's take on not being able to fathom Metal Gear as a whole.

Metal Gear may be my favorite series of anything ever, but I think I relate to that feeling of lacking the ability to receive the piece.

When I first tried getting into anime, I could barely follow anything that was happening in any series/movie that I tried to watch. The presentation/focus of most everything was so foreign to me. The way shots would linger on motionless faces but anything action-oriented was presented in complete blurs, the way people spoke more about BIG IDEAS than like actual humans, it was all just pretty disorienting. I wonder if my tolerance for anime has made me receptive to Metal Gear.

 

On the subject of not being able to "get" a thing; Mario Maker. 

I grew up pretty exclusively on 2D platformers and I've been incapable of enjoying one for the last 20 years. 3D ones I kind of understand because there's some element of exploration there, but 2D platformers are as interesting to me as Facebook games. Maybe less so. So people being so excited about being able to make 2D platforming levels is just the most baffling thing to me. But I'm glad something that Nintendo is doing is being well received.

 

Also, hey! Kole Ross! Duckfeed is a good network of podcasts and their site is very attractively designed.

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The songs in MGS V are definitely master tracks. The Man Who Sold the World is a cover, true, but it was released by Midge Ure (singer for Ultravox) in 1985.

 

That being said, I'm using Danger Zone as my entrance theme:

 

 

 

Yeah, they mentioned several times that some were covers and that confused me. I think the man who sold the world is the only cover, and as you mention that cover is 80s appropriate, vs the original bowie which is earlier. I'd assumed the songs were originals and so was second guessing myself, thinking that maybe i just don't know the originals of some of them well enough.

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I thought Leigh Alexander's piece on Offworld (https://boingboing.net/2015/09/10/is-metal-gear-solid-v-as-big-a.html) made an interesting point about how the Midge Ure cover is a better thematic choice:

 

In the game's beginning sequence, you wake up after a nine-year coma in some kind of military hospital to the sound of a cover of David Bowie's "The Man Who Sold the World". Although the song is lyrically apt (I must have died alone, a long long time ago), it's this Midge Ure version below, plonked out in synths, a jarring '80s take on a familiar 1970's song, which makes it an amazing thematic choice—you fell into a coma before synths were a mainstream thing, and you wake up to a synth cover, an alienating emblem of how time has passed, the world moved on without you.

 

Also (MGSV end-game spoilers):

The use of a cover track may be foreshadowing the fact that "Venom Snake" is not who he appears to be.

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I made a post in last week's thread where I commented on the dichotomy between gushing about MGS V being GOTY when it was preceded by consternation over the grossness of how a lot of the characters are portrayed. It probably came off as more accusatory than I would have liked, because it was a coalescing thought in my brain that I wanted to get out before I forgot it, and Thumbs discussion is specifically what helped me form that thought. I heard this week's episode, saw a lot of the same thoughts I had kicking around in everyone else's head, and then saw Chris suggest referring to this episode in reference to my comments. So that's cool and good!

 

I read this article on the Verge, and while I don't fully agree with all the thoughts (and titling it "I Would Hate MGS V..." is click-bait), it definitely expounds on some of what I'm trying to express. I don't mean to specifically pick on Metal Gear, because I'm thinking of gaming at large, but it's such a big and obvious target and definitely guilty of multiple transgressions, one of which is being an amazingly coded video game layered over with non-amazing stuff.

 

What I'm driving at is MGS V is inevitably going to be GOTY for multiple major gaming outlets, because the way it plays is incredible. Those outlets will wring their hands over all the gross shit in the game at the same time they're lauding the highest praise. But once it gets those praises and labels, it's telling everyone as long as your mechanics are good we'll look past your other flaws. No game is flawless, but it'll get whitewashed. Conversely, Danielle's GOTY for last year was Alien: Isolation. It was mostly recognized as being good, but looked past in most places because it was mechanically flawed. It's faults were coding, pacing, gameplay stuff. It's been talked to death, but in some ways that makes sense for games because regardless of message you have to play them, and that gets looked at in a different way than things layered over mechanical excellence. I'm horribly guilty of this every year in another way, because so many of my favorite games involve brutally murdering thousands and thousands of people and things and I barely give it a thought. That's a third conversation, maybe.

 

This is long, rambly, and I had to walk away for a couple of hours and came back mid thought. I'm asking how we get to a place where we praise and criticize mechanically superior games with aesthetic issues in the same way we do for games that are mechanically flawed. How do we recognizes MGS for its technical excellence without allowing it to walk away scot free at the end of the year? Should I care?

 

 

I appreciate that I'm permitted to ramble like a lunatic and everyone will calmly ignore me.

 

I read your post and didn't ignore it, but it's a little hard for me to respond. I feel like the main disconnect I have with you is that I do not care in the least what is termed a "GOTY" and what isn't. Probably because I don't read any games sites, or even listen to any games podcasts other than Idle Thumbs. I think the entire concept of "GOTY", and the sort of trumped up culture around it (which is probably comparable to the trumped up culture around most annual awards given to art) is mostly based on marketing decisions, because a top 10 list is going to drive a lot of hits.

 

It seems like, in a world without any GOTY, the reaction most sites have had to MGS V would sit okay with you. Because, as you've pointed out, the gross sexism of the game has been registered by many. And while making lists can be fun, I'd imagine most journalists would not mind if there was less emphasis on November and December being this mad scramble to rank subjective experiences they had with works of art the previous ten months*. And then, once you think of GOTYs as an economic necessity, the way they're determined are usually defined by the same thing. It's political, it all has to do with serving the GOTY machine, and what your audience will think. I don't think video games are at the same point that film is, where companies are basically running multi-million dollar election campaigns for their prestige films, but you know that anyone writing for a major game site will second guess picking, say, Undertale for their GOTY more than they will MGS V or Mario Maker or whatever else. Because they know their audience is going to second guess Undertale more than MGS V or Mario Maker or whatever else. They know waaaaaaay less people have played Undertale than MGS V or Mario Maker or whatever else, so it'll get way less clicks and garner way less ad-revenue-generating debate, in the comments section and elsewhere.

 

I look at the Academy Awards giving best picture to Birdman and all I can think is "Huh, ok, that's weird." and then I move on because I ultimately don't think it matters that much. I think the same applies to GOTYs. But I am one who tend to think that canon defines itself, and anyone trying to declare anything an "instant classic" is just reading tea leaves. I don't think as many people watch All The Kings Men as The Third Man, even though the former won an Academy Award for Best Picture and the latter wasn't even nominated. Canon defines itself. I think whether MGS V gets all that sweet GOTY love or every games site takes a stand and refuses to give it anything, it won't really change anything. Maybe MGS V will be a foundational work that is quite embarrassing, like Birth of a Nation. Maybe it will be a politically regressive financial success that doesn't stand the test of time, like Dirty Harry. Maybe it will be an established beloved commercial and critical classic that just happens to have a fair amount of fucked up shit in it, like Pulp Fiction. Only time will tell.

 

I think now I'm the one who's rambling like a lunatic. But I wanted you to get at least one reply!

 

This is probably being generous, because I know for a fact there are a lot of film critics who LOVE the competitive air of awards season, and would revel in it even if it weren't paying their rent.

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I just misheard something in a hilarious way just now! I thought Chris said Parachute was an online betting brand and that they have sheeps. I then realized what Chris actually said...but the idea of gambling sheep in Venice Beach made my day!

 

 

Every time Chris reads the Parachute ads I think he'd talking about a gambling website.

 

I've heard this ad like three times now and each time I hear 'betting' instead of bedding and I blame the Beastcast for this.

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I think both posts on GOTY are interesting.

 

 

Incidentally, if you are interested in critics revelling in GOTY discussion just for the sake of it Giant Bomb is a good/bad place to start with their 6 hour epic debates on the top ten games of the year. I have not once agreed with their top five but it is brilliant fun to hear people debating subjective 'facts'.

 

As for the mechanically brilliant but thematically troubling, Where does GTA V factor into this? It is rubbish to play but everyone seems to ignore the weak aiming, shitty driving and boring missions and still say it is fantastic.

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Soma = my goty.

I love thinking about the existential themes that Soma brings to the table because I love thinking about them and putting myself in a weird alt-state and having that dread upon me.

I think it's comparable to The Talos Principle story wise: they both tackle consciousness, Truth and other philosophical themes. But I think that Soma tackled it a bit better and smooth what the rough edges that Talos had.

Also, I have gone back to reading PKD and my mind is perfectly open for topics in reality. Shit, the game opens up with a PKD quote!

EDIT: Swapper tackled existential themes too and I think it did it better than both Soma and Talos. So, Swapper > Soma > Talos

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I read this article on the Verge, and while I don't fully agree with all the thoughts (and titling it "I Would Hate MGS V..." is click-bait), it definitely expounds on some of what I'm trying to express. I don't mean to specifically pick on Metal Gear, because I'm thinking of gaming at large, but it's such a big and obvious target and definitely guilty of multiple transgressions, one of which is being an amazingly coded video game layered over with non-amazing stuff.

Just an aside comment on this - I think "click-bait" is starting to lose meaning.

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