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The Kingkiller Chronicle (Name of the Wind, The Wise Man's Fear)

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Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss

 

It's been a while since I've read these books, but I'm still eagerly awaiting the third (and I think final) installment.

 

The storytelling in this book is amazing; the change of scenes and times and scenarios captivated me throughout the whole thing. Just in the first book there are several distinct settings, and the worldbuilding is focused on certain details but still very good. This is a story framed within another story. We have a present-day Kvothe settled down and dealing with looming issues, and also being slightly angsty over his past, as he tells his story to a scribe.

 

The magic system is definitely one of my favorite things about this series! The main system, called sympathy, is made out to be like a science, with precise measurements and knowledge needed to perform it, just like any other intellectual discipline. It doesn't feel unfair when magic is used, since this novel is so good about explaining the wit and problem-solving the main character uses to work out problems. Also subtly explored throughout the series is the more traditional magic that you usually see in fantasy novels, but this kind of magic of controlling elements is very rare and requires a lot of soul searching. It's actually where the title of the first book comes from.

 

I loved the characters; especially the main character who is also the narrator. I think I've seen some complaints that he's too cocky and confident, but I personally don't see that as a problem; I suspect it may be because most young adult fantasy novels have that wimpy main character who has things thrown into his lap for him. While Kvothe (pronounced "Quothe") has a lot of inherent talents and ability, it's great to see how he uses them throughout the story to solve conflict and get where he needs to go.

 

Female characters are very meh and flat. It seems like the author doesn't really know how girls work to be honest, and there are a couple scenes that come to mind that make me cringe a little on the inside. It's definitely not super distracting overall however, although the plot line involving the main character and his wandering love interest is kind of iffy and confusing at times.

 

I feel like since I haven't read this story in a while I'm not really doing justice to how good I felt about this book while I was reading it and reflecting on it. Seriously-- if you like epic fantasy I recommend reading a bit of the series. I think it's ranked quite high up there on Goodreads on certain fantasy lists, and for good reason. As always, I can describe the plot a bit, but the writing really has to be experienced for yourself.

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I also love these books. Not as elequent as what you're saying, but it's reminds me of why I read YA books for so long (which I mean in a really good way). It's an epic adventure that is part power fantasy. I can't stress how great the writing is though. I'm waiting for the third book, too. I'd reccommend these books to anyone that likes fantasy.

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Good series.  I agree about the female characters though.  They are too few and far between and often are flat or don't really have a story arch.  This is probably one of the best entries into the magical boy genre I've seen.

 

Edit: Does anyone know when the third book is supposed to release?

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I'm 90% of my way through the second book, and am enjoying it a lot more than the first. Overall the main character feels just a bit more even and realistic. Though it was awhile since I read the first so I can't really remember exactly what it was that put me off him in the first place.

 

That said, I'm finding the pacing of book 2 a little strange. (Book 2 spoilers):

The whole Felurian section makes the narrative feel like it's just come to a screaming halt. All of this exciting stuff is happening, Kvothe is meeting new people, learning new things, having all sorts of interesting experiences and then STOP: page after page after page of "words can't describe how beautiful Felurian was but here are a lot of words describing how beautiful Felurian was". It reminded me of the parts of Tolkien that I never enjoyed.

 

Kvothe is now training with the Ademre, which has a bit more momentum to it. But I still feel like the first half of this book picks up and continues the pace of the first novel, while the second half just begins meandering through various distractions.

 

That said, this is the first fantasy series in a while that has had me actively looking forward to my commute. Still looking forward to #3.

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I'm 90% of my way through the second book, and am enjoying it a lot more than the first. Overall the main character feels just a bit more even and realistic. Though it was awhile since I read the first so I can't really remember exactly what it was that put me off him in the first place.

 

That said, I'm finding the pacing of book 2 a little strange. (Book 2 spoilers):

The whole Felurian section makes the narrative feel like it's just come to a screaming halt. All of this exciting stuff is happening, Kvothe is meeting new people, learning new things, having all sorts of interesting experiences and then STOP: page after page after page of "words can't describe how beautiful Felurian was but here are a lot of words describing how beautiful Felurian was". It reminded me of the parts of Tolkien that I never enjoyed.

 

Kvothe is now training with the Ademre, which has a bit more momentum to it. But I still feel like the first half of this book picks up and continues the pace of the first novel, while the second half just begins meandering through various distractions.

 

That said, this is the first fantasy series in a while that has had me actively looking forward to my commute. Still looking forward to #3.

Hmm yeah I have to agree that

 

He was really trying to pump the whole Felurian thing up but it just kinda made me wonder why we spent so long there.

 

Doesn't look like the third book will be coming out anytime soon still. He even taunts readers about it on his Twitter ):

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For those still waiting for the 3rd book, there are 2 very good in-betweeners to read. 

The first is the short story "The Lightning Tree" which was written for the Rogues anthology of stories edited by GRRM, itself an excellent read. The Lightning Tree describes a day in Bast's life about town, as he bargains with children, seduces and is seduced by, eats, naps, and tells stories. The story is a tight encapsulation of much of what is great about the Kingkiller books, and is wonderful for everyone who saw Bast rip that bird in half, turn it into fire, and then use it to mend a table, and thought "more of this guy, please." 

The second, The Slow Regard of Silent Things, is at first a novella about a day in the life of Auri, the strange waif character who lives in the walls of the university. The book excellently describes more of the structure and nature of the University and it's older sections, while focusing on Auri's extreme difficulty in making it through a day due to her mental conditions. It's very specifically about someone living with mental illness, and while this will make it a tough sell for many, I found it ultimately rewarding and not exploitative. The second half of this book is something that all fans of the books should read. It's Rothfuss directly talking about writing the books, his writing process, and writing Auri. He explains that it is painful for him to write and that he can't release a thing until it has gone through at least 20 re-writes/edits. The Slow Regard of Silent Things was meant to be something he just did for himself, and he was surprised at how much time he ended up devoting to it. The section where he describes who prompted him to publish it I found extremely lovely. 

 

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I think the novella is definitely the most interesting thing he's written in the sense that it's not a rather pointless meandering bunch of mary sue nerd wish-fulfillment. It's a bit too manic pixie dream girl to pass muster entirely but it at least tries.

 

I thought the first book of the main series showed some promise but the sex ninjas and complete lack of plot progression in book 2 really put me off Rothfuss. Luckily I'd bought the novella on the strength of my initial like of the first book so I got something lasting out of it.

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I find that the best way to read these books is just as a series of short stories. The contents of some of them aren't great, others are more interesting. Just can't let the disappointment of the bad ones ruin the better ones.

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I have not read any of this thread yet, but I just wanted to pop in here and say my mom got me this book for Christmas and I'm about a quarter of the way through now. Finding it very readable and enjoyable, though the protag is definitely a, what, 'Gary Stu'? But I accepted that from the beginning (it's basically advertised on the sleeve), so I'm able to enjoy it.

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Yeah it's super self inserty but I ended up really liking this as comfort food writing. 

A lot of the other fantasy I really like tends to be slice of life like the Recluce Saga and most of those are about the one person at that point in history who became super powerful and changed the world. It's not perfect and its super contrived but I just like how aimless and comfortably paced this sub genre is.

There's plenty of stuff to annoy of course, too many characters feel vague and cut out, most of the women are just faint impressions, Ferulian went on and on and on, Getting super granular about Kvothe's budget issues dragged on for a while, sex monks, etc but most of the time I felt carried by the writing. Slow Regard of Silent Things is a lot better than most of the series but since it lacks the series' true best character, Baast, it gets an A.

I'm fully with Rilen here on the novella, but I haven't read The Lightning Tree yet.

 

I do wish Kvothe had more checks and balances to his personality. The books do show him with faults but it gets really sensitive around any of his character traits that the author values.

It's super weird/bad that Kvothe ends up being a super idealised Nice Guy whose waiting for [dream-like perfect girl] to get herself out of her dependency on [rich asshole] so they can finally be together.

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@Mawd Is that the read on that relationship? I hate the relationship, but because it seems like the most deeply unhealthy and abusive bullshit ever, and especially bad for Kvothe. I thought it was being set up as this terrible thing that is eventually going to cause him to kill a king, but he still won't get the girl, because their history is one of just awfulness. I felt like Kvothe's attempts at being a "white knight" were more a reflection of his naivete and inexperience, and were ultimately destructive and harmful to him.  

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7 hours ago, Rilen said:

@Mawd Is that the read on that relationship? I hate the relationship, but because it seems like the most deeply unhealthy and abusive bullshit ever, and especially bad for Kvothe. I thought it was being set up as this terrible thing that is eventually going to cause him to kill a king, but he still won't get the girl, because their history is one of just awfulness. I felt like Kvothe's attempts at being a "white knight" were more a reflection of his naivete and inexperience, and were ultimately destructive and harmful to him.  

 

Well it's my glib read anyway. Kvothe treats her like a deer or some elemental power that slips away at the slightest gaffe and he seems to think the great error most of the other men commit is being forward to her as if that makes them get brushed into some lower category of her opinions. So instead of being active in courting her he'll switch to passively charming her in every way possible, which kind of makes me think of how certain people act when they're 'friend-zoned'. He often seems to forgive her for the way she acts because like him she's an itinerant traveller and like him needs to find many ways to financially support herself so he sees a lot of her relationships with other men as financial arrangements up until the point she either tires of them or they do something hurtful. But he thinks she doesn't always have the ability to leave the hurtful relationships so he sometimes wants to step in and help.

It's been a while since I read the books so maybe I'm miss-remembering things.

One thing though is that his journey of sexual maturity in The Wise Man's Fear is also a journey of him deciding that he's finally worthy of her attentions. He spends a lot of time thinking that his current living situation prohibits him from starting a relationship with her and whether conscious or not the plot line where he becomes the greatest sexual lover in the world and possibly all time (among humans) is a reflection of that. Then meeting the Ademe means that after learning of the elemental sexual nature of, basically a fairy-siren, he gets to know the kind of ways to act around people with a more 'emotionally mature' sexual nature. I forget where they are overall in the book after the Ademe, I think he either goes back to the university or has a short stint in the town with the super rich lord, but there are at least a couple more moments where he hangs around a town haunting basically anywhere that he thinks she might be and by now he commits some grave error in their relationship either he starts getting possessive to her, grilling her over the probably abusive latest suitor or some kind of combination of that. I think by then he still wants to white knight for her and rescue her from herself/the suitor, but I think he's starting to get a little frustrated over it.

I'm sure their relationship somehow kicks off a world ending tragedy because that's just the kind of scale the books seem to be working on but it also seems to be about how Mr. Almost Perfect's greatest foil is that Mrs. Almost Perfect is in no current position to be with him.

 

I don't really remember her being consciously cruel to him. I think that maybe it happens between the lines.

 

When I really enjoyed these books it was because I did end up reading in between the lines a lot, but I seem to have forgotten most of what I thought for how I felt.

Personally the version of this story I like the most is when Baast and Kote are a domestic couple where one of them wants the excitement and danger back in their lives and the other is happy to simply be at peace.

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I think the only time I even remotely enjoyed Kvothe as a character was during some of his interactions with Devi (especially the ones where he is humiliated.)

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Well I got about 400 pages into The Name of the Wind and yesterday I officially called it a day. It was a very strange experience reading this book as normally I'd give up on something which annoyed me as much as this book, but I felt compelled to read it for some reason. I liked the world building initially and the idea of the magic system, but my god does his perfection get boring as fuck super quickly. I literally rolled my eyes when

he won his silver pipes in the first night and then wept on stage. It was predictable and pretentious. I think that was ultimately the last straw for me

 

I don't know why I came into bag on this book so hard. Maybe because I'm a grump bug from working so late recently, or maybe you guys are the only people I (don't really) know who are discussing the book. 

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It's a good book to bag on. There's a lot to complain about and there's disagreement on what any redeeming qualities actually are. For what it's worth, you're not missing anything in the rest of the book. Both books start off much stronger than they end, which leads me to wonder if the author is just giving himself too much space to work with and would have more consistently good material with a tighter plot arc. That's coming from someone with a deep affection for meandering side-story bits too.

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I ended up having really mixed feelings about this book, which I guess is the general consensus. I ended up rooting against the protag a lot of the time. I wanted to see him knocked down a few pegs.

 

Obviously the author is very smart, but this book felt like wish-fulfillment of a kind. The protag was too good at everything, too sympathetic. Somehow, his flaws made him faultless. I wanted more than anything for him to finally be humbled by something, but I guess this is not that story.

 

I would have loved it when I was 15. I would have adored this character and really felt his problems, especially his girl problems. But then, I liked "A Spell for Chameleon," even though I knew it was stupid. Looking at reviews for The Wise Man's Fear, I can't help but think that book is going to mine that same vein of pubescent fantasy, and being 27 now, I'm far more interested in the emotional context and nuance that comes with the sex of adulthood.

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Yeah, I pretty much enjoy these books because they're easy to read, but by GOD do they infuriate me. Probably once a chapter I'd take a screengrab of my Kindle and send it to my girlfriend (who studied at the school Rothfuss used to lecture at) and be like WHAT IS THIS SHIT. 

 

And SO MUCH of Wise Man's Fear is a very very prepubescent idea of sex and lotharioism and it's genuinely both hilarious and infuriating. Probably 20% is spent w the dude having sex w this mystical elf woman? Urgh. And yet, I persisted.

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21 hours ago, Vegas said:

I would have loved it when I was 15. I would have adored this character and really felt his problems, especially his girl problems.

 

Definitely. In a weird way I think this book may have missed its audience - it's actually a smart YA book. It's would probably go down really well with YA readers who want better/more complex writing than the genre usually provides.

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1 hour ago, Gwardinen said:

In a weird way I think this book may have missed its audience - it's actually a smart YA book. It's would probably go down really well with YA readers who want better/more complex writing than the genre usually provides.

 

Ronan Wills, who has an excellent teardown of the book on his blog, argues in his wrap-up review that Rothfuss should be taken literally when he says that he's been kicking around ideas for this book since his teens, because there's clearly different strata from different points in Rothfuss' life suggesting that he kept adding to and rewriting drafts of the book as new fantasy influences entered his life. There's stuff at the wizard school that smacks of a smart teen who's just read Harry Potter, there's the worldbuilding and lore that waft of someone in college who's getting into Wheel of Time, and there's the grimdark frame story that's clearly a full-grown adult trying to drum up interest in his manuscript and has taken Game of Thrones as a model for success.

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1 hour ago, Gormongous said:

 

Ronan Wills, who has an excellent teardown of the book on his blog, argues in his wrap-up review that Rothfuss should be taken literally when he says that he's been kicking around ideas for this book since his teens, because there's clearly different strata from different points in Rothfuss' life suggesting that he kept adding to and rewriting drafts of the book as new fantasy influences entered his life. There's stuff at the wizard school that smacks of a smart teen who's just read Harry Potter, there's the worldbuilding and lore that waft of someone in college who's getting into Wheel of Time, and there's the grimdark frame story that's clearly a full-grown adult trying to drum up interest in his manuscript and has taken Game of Thrones as a model for success.

Dude was 24 when the first Harry Potter book came out, so I suspect there's not any remnant of a smart teen who just read that, unless Rothfuss is a time traveler.

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5 minutes ago, TychoCelchuuu said:

Dude was 24 when the first Harry Potter book came out, so I suspect there's not any remnant of a smart teen who just read that, unless Rothfuss is a time traveler.

 

Fair enough, although I could take a shot at Rothfuss' maturity here, haha. The wild tone swings between the school days, the cataclysmic backstory, and the grim scenes with "adult" Kvothe do point to a book that was written over a long period of time and not fully revised. Rothfuss did have an editor for publication, but the only feedback we know about that she gave him was to ask for more filler: he padded the first book out with 60,000 more words at her behest.

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I'm definitely in agreement on the story being thought up over a long period of time though. I see the same sorts of things looking  back at the stories I've been lugging around for years.

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The thing that bothers me about smart characters being painted as wish-fulfilment is that if I wrote down things that I did, in my own life, and ascribed them to a fictional character, I get the feeling they'd be painted as wish fulfilment. No-one's just born knowing French. No-one's that good at something they've never done before.

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