Ben X

The Big FPS Playthrough MISSION COMPLETE

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Yeah, it's a shame that this (according to many) isn't nearly as good as the previous games. I have to say, it does feel a lot more showy so I can't help but wonder if they got caught up in the acclaim of the first game and focused on their environmental storytelling and political themes rather than the gameplay or narrative. It's amazing walking around Columbia at the start, but it also does feel a little aimless, and I feel like the game wants me to be picking up vigors and coins and looting trashcans even though it doesn't really make sense for DeWitt to just start doing that when all he needs to do at the moment is find the girl. I've avoided most of that except the free sample (I felt it was in character to take that) of machine possession.

 

Still, the environmental storytelling is gorgeous and full of detail. The barbershop quartet is fantastic. Also all very intriguing - a quote on trans-dimensional travel and then a place that mirrors Rapture in many ways.

 

I've taken the baseball (that show - wow, they are fully tackling the racism thing head-on) and got in a fire-fight. The juxtaposition of this idyllic city and then suddenly the brutal gore of the melee fights (and the eruption of racism, fanaticism and violence) is really effective. Unfortunately the game crashed when I possessed the sentry gun (love the metal-man design) a second time. Not sure if it was a scripted event or I got too close when I did it and something just borked. When I go back to play, I'm going to see whether there's any way around taking part in the raffle (and if not, how well they accomplish that).

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From memory, it was delayed a few times and about a year before it was released a producer who had worked on Gears of War was brought in to make sure it was finished and released on time. The earlier footage seems like a very different game, far less linear for a start and I think you can tell that what was delivered wasn't what was started. There's many parts of a more open game still lying around, totally out of place. It's another FPS that was a victim to what was in vogue, a 2 weapon system is brought in, there's needless spectacle, more set pieces etc. Comparing it to the rest of Irrational Games catalogue it's somewhat out of place, it's about as straight up of an FPS as they've ever made. 2K Games wanted to build a massive household franchise out of what was a fluke as far as mainstream appeal goes in the immersive sim genre and they wound up getting a frankenstein that wasn't the runaway hit they wanted(it sold really well, but I bet it wasn't cheap to make) or the continuation of the series fans wanted.

 

I had a look at my comments about it from the time and I say I really enjoyed it but I've never gone back to it since. I played both of the DLCs and the first was an interesting idea executed poorly and the second one was actually quite good overall. Do you have the DLC?

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No, although it is tempting from a story point of view as I know they tie in with Rapture (and perhaps the first game's events?) more.

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On 6/11/2017 at 7:53 PM, Salacious Snake said:

My favorite game in the immersive sim category is Thief, which has minimal progression stuff, aside from getting some new gadgets. I can say pretty confidently that it wouldn't be improved by having to dump experience points into your archery skill. Basically fuck RPGs.

 

I think I'm starting to think the same way - RPGs are time thieves by design - designed to make you grind towards choosing a certain path. I think a better way is to do it without the grinding - like Metroidvania, or even The Witness where your progression is determined by knowledge you've accumulated.

 

I loved The Witcher 3, though. But when I see that I've put 150+ hours into it (w/o finishing the expansions) I'm not sure the grinding was important for the experience. I loved spending time on exploring, but not for the purpose to find new areas with XP for progressing. I think a 3 times shorter The Witcher 3 which would have eliminated grinding would have been preferable.

 

This RPG-weariness is one reason I decided to not get Prey, althouh I loved the demo. Maybe I'll change my mind later.

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I installed BioShock Infinite and played through the first two areas. It really is a rather good shooter, the controls feel great and it's just a ridiculous amount of fun, I'll keep playing and see how I feel about it in 7 or 8 hours though, because I'm racking up new skills fast so I don't know that they're well spread out. It still looks absolutely stunning, some of the best art from a technical and aesthetic point of view I've seen in a game. Not remotely what I expect from a game with "Shock" on the title though, if this was done outside of the franchise I don't think people would have been so critical.

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It's a shame you didn't enjoy Dishonored more. I have always found that immersive sim lineage games tend to really come alive on a second or third playthrough, which isn't in the spirit of this thread. You figure out the things that you could have done different from a mechanics side, and you can make different narrative choices that can pretty drastically change certain levels. There are also a few different points that are kind of random. For example, the twins in the brothel can be in several different places, some of which can provide special assassination opportunities.

 

It definitely makes a mistake in scolding you for being the hyperviolent death machine that it equips you to be, but it works if you are willing to role play a bit with what you think the disgraced bodyguard of a dead empress might do in that situation.

 

I agree that the plot of the game is very dull (rescue the princess! oh no your suspicious group has betrayed you!), but I adore the world. The Outsider is kind of poorly presented in D1 and he's just kind of annoying, but there is some Deep Lore around him that is interesting. The characters have a lot of "off screen" interactions with one another. Like, at some point Havelock gets annoyed with recording all of his diaries on one of the audiograph machines in the Hound Pits, so he throws it out. You can find it later in Samuel's little hut that's beside the stairs down to his boat. There are tonnes of things like that.

 

The DLC is very good though. It's a noir detective mystery starring Michael Madsen. Dishonored 2 is a sequel to the DLC as much a the original game, and Death of the Outsider shakes things up a bit that works well within its smaller scope. Although looking over your list you don't seem too keen on immersive sims.

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I was even a little tempted to immediately start a replay of Dishonored, see if I could approach the early levels with more finesse, but I decided against it. Maybe some day.

 

So, Paul's comments are spot on. Bioshock Infinite feels really linear compared to the other games. I've got to the Hall Of Heroes, which is I guess a couple of hours in, and I don't feel like I've been let loose yet. It's all very nicely presented and everything, so it's not a big problem, but combined with the simplification of the mechanics (two-weapon system, no holding onto medkits, autosave only) and a lot of hand-holding with health/salts/ammo never in short supply, a regenerating shield, and Booker and Elizabeth waffling on at me to make sure I understand what to do at all times, it feels closer to a walking simulator than a shooter at the moment. I really hope it opens up soon and lets me use the skylines and vigors tactically for firefights. I don't necessarily mind them making more of a linear shooter than the previous games, but it at least needs some proper action bubbles - so far it feels like I'm stuck in a loop of the first fight in an RPG where I'm really just quickly shooting a couple of people so I can get back to admiring the art design and then rummaging through it for spare change.

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You'll definitely get a handful of really well designed arenas as the game progresses, full of skylines to zip around on. I'm not sure they will redeem the problems you're already having.

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I'm apparently one of the rare people that loved Bioshock Infinite, because I am just a sucker for loopy twisty bendy stories and this game legitimately Blew My Mind (Gamespot.com) in its later stages.

 

BUT, if you're not feeling it due to a lack of more freedom, I don't think Infinite will ever deliver on that. For sure, there will be some cool fights in larger arenas with ziplines and stuff, but never to the point where either the original vision for the game is attained or you really feel like you're let loose on this world. Maybe only one area near the end.

 

So, knowing that, just enjoy the crazy scenery and how this game unfolds like an excellent origami flower.

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My favourite part of BSI was the songs. The first thing that comes to mind about that game is the acapella group singing God Only Knows, and the little girl singing Fortunate Son. Both versions of Will The Circle Be Unbroken are great too.

 

Overall it was my least fave Bioshock game though.

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I remember playing this through on release and having a blast - but mostly thanks to the gorgeous scenery and setpieces. Regrettably I'd not played the earlier games (although I recently started the first entry and it's great). The game does indeed feel rather on-rails, and I often wished I could go back to areas to explore them. That all said, it might be time for another play through. When I picked up BS1 recently, I also got 2 and Infinite (they're all a couple of quid at CeX), so I wonder how playing the first two will colour my re-play of Infinite when I finally get there.

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I played a little more of this today, and I am getting really bored of it. Once you get used to the level of production values, you're left with the gameplay and storytelling, both of which are pretty damn sluggish. I just played through a fight where I'm supposed to be using the ziplines and Elizabeth's tears, but the layout was a mess and combined with how difficult it is to locate enemies and the imprecise shooting, it really fell flat.

I'm starting to wonder if I need to increase the FOV, because it feels pretty boxed in at times. That might help with locating stuff. I've never bothered touching it in other games. [EDIT: I've now put the slider up to full.]

I've just got to Finkton Docks and apparently I'm only a third of the way through the game. I'm not sure how much more of this I can be bothered with. I might try to just run through it as quickly as possible without taking detours or looking for coins and the like, and see if I can enjoy it that way.

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I kind of want you to push a little further because there's an infamously garbage bit coming up.

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I had the feeling that might be soon, if it's what I'm thinking of. My vague recollection is that all the black people turn out to actually be arseholes and their subjugation is therefore portrayed as justified, or something... I will definitely push through for a while longer!

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I finally got some time to play a bit more of this. I just played another huge chunk of it and holy shit I'm still only about 75% through (I just fought Elizabeth's mother in her ghost-ish form in the graveyard). It's feeling really repetitive and the balancing of the powers/weapons/health really does not encourage experimental play or proper use of the levelling-up system, especially the two-weapon system. I also never find the ziplines particularly useful or fun in a firefight because I can never tell where the hell I'm going.

 

I'm tempted to quit, but as I'm not actually stuck and they're still throwing lots of production value at me, I might push through to the end...

 

What was the infamously garbagey bit, @Merus?

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Swap it to easy if you can and get through to the end if you just fought the ghost, so you can at least see the ending.

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I hope it's close, I don't know if I can handle being told that Comstock and Fitzroy are the same, or that maybe Elizabeth is creating the other universes, many more dozen times...

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Finished. The ending was, as with most of the game, impressive while didactic and hollow. It was cool going to Rapture and then all those other places in quick succession, going through a looping series of doors, but my reaction to the story was finally "so what?"

 

This is why Half Life 2 is heralded as great storytelling - it doesn't tell a story that would be good for a book or a movie or an RPG, it takes a pared down, tropey storyline and tells it mostly through the environment with the occasional fun vignette filled with believable characters. With BI, I barely had a handle on the story most of the time because so many layers of backstory and ongoing twists were being thrown at me, and yet at the same time certain points and themes got hammered over and over again.

 

I couldn't find too much making-of stuff, but here's a review from RPS that mostly aligned with what I thought, though was a bit more forgiving of its flaws. I'd be interested to hear what others here thought of it, especially the themes and narrative.

 

I'm going to skip Zeno Clash 2, as I'm unlikely to enjoy it that much judging from my experience with the first one, and I just want an FPS I can enjoy right now! I'm not convinced Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon will be it, but I suspect I'll at least be able to muck around in it if I get bored, and not feel so obliged to make it all the way through...

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Aww yeah, now you're getting to the good stuff! The remaining games on your list are - with the exception of Rise to the Triad - all 5-star games in my book.

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Blood Dragon is pretty fun so far. I like the Robocop/Terminator/Predator 80s VHS pastiche mixed with Sega Megadrive cutscene visuals, though they go on too long. And the gloopy laser fire  looks nice and Cameron-y. It also mocks tutorialising which was pretty funny, though again it went on too long and then the game actually spent half an hour tutorialising. Speaking of which, I'm already feeling a bit weighed down by all the systems - buying upgrades, freeing compounds, side-missions etc. I know this is the standard Ubisoft game now, but I was hoping for a little more Far Cry 1 and a little less Assassin's Creed. Never mind, I'll just blast around for for as long as it remains fun. I'm having a couple of Bioshock Infinite-type problems with the combat, actually - the weird health system and some poor enemy visibility (mostly due to the gloomy visual scheme), plus slightly floaty shooting. Some of this may be solved by being a bit more stealthy, though.

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On 5/7/2018 at 4:32 AM, Ben X said:

What was the infamously garbagey bit, @Merus?

 

The bit in the middle with the Vox Populi, where the game draws a moral equivalence between the oppressed and the oppressors by essentially having the Vox Populi act exactly the same when they get the upper hand, complete with charismatic leader who cannot be negotiated with. I found Dan Golding's article particularly persuasive but it appears to have succumbed to linkrot.

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I played BI in a stoned haze when it came out and it was kind of the perfect game for that as it just led you by the nose everywhere. That said I still resented it for that. I remember rolling my eyes at the story and having some bigger problems with it (which we've all heard before). I felt really disappointed at the cut enemies and the loot ratting felt really tedious.

Umm I also really disliked that the better weapons and enemies by the end were just.. red? They didn't seem to do much new, you saw more uncle sam robots but.. eh?

I played it and felt very tired at the multiverse thing, it made the mistake a lot of interesting b movie sci fi does where it picks a point to remove every layer of mystery for a heavy handed explanation along with a "now This is where you Feel" moment.

I don't think I felt like I ever really played a combat differently after a point, just a constant cycle of rinse and repeat that felt unfun.

A few modern shooters I call amazing also have that problem in parts but they usually make up for it elsewhere.

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