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XCOM 2

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I've been watching this guy stream the game on the highest difficulty + Ironman and it seems exactly like a puzzle. He definitely can't beat it blind wtihout prior knowledge - he's had to restart a few times already. So perhaps the solution is upping the difficulty.

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I've heard that the highest difficulty is pretty much BS, but that the second to highest difficulty is pretty fun.

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Having just gotten War of the Chosen just this weekend (and having played through maybe 4 or 5 hours of it - basically, the extended tutorial section (for the extra "story" you get if you're playing the tutorial mode), plus a mission or two after), and have some initial comments, not all of which are positive. I've been playing on the default difficulty, and it doesn't seem much harder than the base game.

 

Narrative/setting first, since I'm weird and care a lot about narrative and story consistency in games. I've spoilered a few bits here for the ultraparanoid, although I'm not talking about much which isn't in the release trailers etc.

 

Good things: the new factions are mostly good (I've barely met the Templars yet, but I've seen enough of them in other people's games), and "round out" the XCOM2 setting in interesting ways, even if they're all stereotypes/archetypes of resistance groups (the Wilderness Survivalists, the Defectors from the Evil Regime, the Mystical Secret Society). As others have noted, the Skirmishers are actually the most interesting in terms of "potential narrative depth",

Spoiler

but in a sense, that's also expected - any deepening of The Enemy to show that they're not just a (literally, with those helmets) faceless force of Evil Grunts, is going to make things seem more interesting.

The Lost also seem to be well handled, even if they're mostly SF Zombies, and there's a hint that they might be a little more behind them than that. It's nice to have the callbacks to XCOM that they allow, too, as well as the old ruined city environments.

In terms of things with no reflection in gameplay at all: the "photobooth" option is as amusing and fun as everyone else seems to find it (and it's nice that there's some voice triggers from the Main Cast if you spend a lot of time messing with it); similarly, the extended set of post-mission V/Os (including propaganda broadcasts by ADVENT) are a nice touch, and I wish we had more ambient storytelling like it.

 

Meh things: unfortunately, this additional depth plays merry hell with the old XCOM2 storyline

Spoiler

which War of The Chosen's plot is woven around and through, and it's mostly the Skirmishers' fault again. All those moments where Tygan discovers something about ADVENT's network - or even the opening tutorial mission cutscene where Bradford shows grim surprise on the reveal (to everyone else) that ADVENT troopers don't look human... are stretched to incredulity by the discovery that Bradford has apparently been in contact with rebels from ADVENT since before the start of the game - he's even added a file about them to the Archive for you to read once you've woken up! (It's made even worse, as Mox seems completely unconcerned by taking his helmet off in front of the XCOM soldiers sent to meet him - so it's not like you can argue Skirmishers have a taboo about revealing their nature.)

 

Bad things: The Chosen. I know XCOM -> XCOM2 -> XCOM2:WOTC is a transition to becoming more and more Saturday Morning Kids Animation, but The Chosen are some of the worst Petty Feuding Villains with Faux Depth since bad villains began. I really don't like anything much about them, to judge from the Chosen Assassin, whose sole purpose appears to be to taunt you ineffectually over your comlink, and be an annoying melee glass-cannon in combat situations. (Seriously, she went down in 1 round of combat on her first appearance, and just two hits.) Even the design makes them look far too like a cross between their clear inspiration - the uruk-hai rivals system in Shadows of Mordor - and bad anime characters. 

 

Gameplay next:

 

Good things: Again, the factions are pretty good, and their interesting level-up process is more interesting as tradeoff system than the vanilla XCOM2 process. Because of Plot, I've mostly had time with the Reaper faction, and their Key Special Mechanic is... interesting, even if I've not had much luck with not Revealing quite quickly. 

There's a bunch of new mission types - many of which don't seem to have timers; or have timers you can delay - but have other kinds of escalation built in that you can mitigate via skilful play. Of the ones I've played, these are a definite improvement on XCOM2's set of options, and their mostly inflexible counters.

The Lost mechanic is fine, in practice, although it does lead to ridiculous (in a good way) carnage, and probably makes Gunslinger Snipers situationally overpowered (as pistols have no ammo limits, so as long as they don't miss, they can just endlessly mow down low-HP Lost).

Quite a few bits feel like they were "inspired" by Long War 2, which is also good - I like the way the Factions system essentially gives you a mirror to ADVENT's hidden events, and an additional level of complexity on the strategy layer, although I've not had enough time to play with this yet. [It feels like the addition of a few extra room types to construct in the Avenger also makes this more strategically interesting - it's not as obvious what you start constructing, and there's probably more space tradeoff...] Similarly, the soldier-bond system (which LW2 mostly just enabled from existing code) is interesting... although it's annoying you need a new building to get past Level 1.

 

Meh things: The Chosen. Honestly, I could take or leave them - although see above for how the narrative for them really doesn't sell me on them to start with. Again, I've only really met the Assassin, and the others might be more interesting, but she's not even as interesting as the Alien Rulers from the first "big" DLC, and considerably weaker than them in her first appearance, at least. Does XCOM2 need a gimmicky rivals system, when it already essentially had one from another DLC? 

Spoiler

(The strategic layer benefits more from them, as they get their own Cards to play, in addition to the ADVENT cards; and your own "positive" cards now.)

Spoiler

That "new level up system" has missed a ludo-narrative integration trick in making everyone level up the same way if they're from a Faction - I would have liked to see something a bit different for Skirmishers (given that, later on in the XCOM2 narrative, we discover that ADVENT troops are custom made with different combinations of alien DNA to tune them for a role, it would have been interesting to have different aspects of different sub-types come out somehow).

 

Bad things: nothing, so far... but the strategy layer is getting pretty damn busy already, and I do worry about the Super Powered Endgame Soldier problem being even worse with all the Cool New Things.

 

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To address a couple of your concerns, the Lost quickly begin spawning with more than four HP (and you get introduced to new types, like the dasher and the brute), which make the Gunslinger strategy only contextually useful. And it sounds like you got really lucky with your first Chosen's traits? My initial encounter with the Assassin wiped out my entire four-man squad and only the two mission-critical characters survived. It was only when I gave all my Rangers Bladestorm and made sure to bring at least two along on any mission where the Assassin might be there that I reliably began beating her. I just finished the stronghold assault that kills her off for good and it was actually a bit harder than I remember the late-game story missions being. Hopefully you'll find the extreme tactical challenge that you were seeking with the other two Chosen?

 

I agree with you about the fiction of the game, though. XCOM2 was already pretty far down the cod-melodrama rabbit hole, with the Elders' pompous and nonsensical plan for humanity, and War of the Chosen only shoves the game further down  it earlier on.

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14 hours ago, Gormongous said:

To address a couple of your concerns, the Lost quickly begin spawning with more than four HP (and you get introduced to new types, like the dasher and the brute), which make the Gunslinger strategy only contextually useful. And it sounds like you got really lucky with your first Chosen's traits? My initial encounter with the Assassin wiped out my entire four-man squad and only the two mission-critical characters survived. It was only when I gave all my Rangers Bladestorm and made sure to bring at least two along on any mission where the Assassin might be there that I reliably began beating her. I just finished the stronghold assault that kills her off for good and it was actually a bit harder than I remember the late-game story missions being. Hopefully you'll find the extreme tactical challenge that you were seeking with the other two Chosen?

 

I agree with you about the fiction of the game, though. XCOM2 was already pretty far down the cod-melodrama rabbit hole, with the Elders' pompous and nonsensical plan for humanity, and War of the Chosen only shoves the game further down  it earlier on.

 

I did a bit of experimenting the next time the Chosen Assassin turned up - my general policy had been to concentrate entirely on her when she appeared, and not let her have a chance to do anything. And, since her health pool is much lower than a Ruler (or some late game enemies), this seems to work well. (It's also why I've had precisely one attack on me from an ADVENT Priest so far - "fill the new thing full of lead first" works out okay.. )

If I give her a turn to actually do something (other than her initial "run away and hide") then she's much more formidable, especially as a lot of her abilities take one or more soldiers out of commission. In this case, it was a mission with Lost, so I did have a little more to concentrate on, and of course Lost are escalating threats too, if you don't mop them up.

I'd still like the Chosen to have a little more health - so you can't just kill them in less than a turn of concentrated fire if you can get to them - or maybe get rebalanced with a chance of a Ruler-reaction or some other interrupt if you get them below 50% health in one turn.

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On 9/5/2017 at 1:57 AM, aoanla said:

I did a bit of experimenting the next time the Chosen Assassin turned up - my general policy had been to concentrate entirely on her when she appeared, and not let her have a chance to do anything. And, since her health pool is much lower than a Ruler (or some late game enemies), this seems to work well. (It's also why I've had precisely one attack on me from an ADVENT Priest so far - "fill the new thing full of lead first" works out okay.. )

If I give her a turn to actually do something (other than her initial "run away and hide") then she's much more formidable, especially as a lot of her abilities take one or more soldiers out of commission. In this case, it was a mission with Lost, so I did have a little more to concentrate on, and of course Lost are escalating threats too, if you don't mop them up.

I'd still like the Chosen to have a little more health - so you can't just kill them in less than a turn of concentrated fire if you can get to them - or maybe get rebalanced with a chance of a Ruler-reaction or some other interrupt if you get them below 50% health in one turn.

 

Yeah, every time I encountered the Chosen Assassin, she spawned on the other side of the map and it was typically two or more turns before she reached my squad. By that point, I usually had no idea where she was and got in the habit of sending a rookie into danger to "spot" for my Rangers to cut her up, which felt authentic and tense. I'm realizing now that my encounters with the second Chosen, the Hunter, have been more in line with your experience: his main attack is easily avoided and his hardcoded weaknesses are really easy to exploit. I guess that's the downside of using the Shadow of Mordor's nemesis system under these circumstances

 

Slight spoiler, but the rulers from the DLC are still in the game as well, so don't bemoan their absence too much!

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Oh, I know the Rulers turn up too... but I just think they overshadow the Chosen in any case. That said, I just realised that Brutal (the Strength my Assassin got) seems to permanently reduce Will, so there's definitely more to fear in Chosen than I had initially stated.

(The Chosen Hunter just turned up for me, too, and he has the bad misfortune to have been generated with Brittle and Weakness: Templars... in the literally the only retaliation mission I brought my Templar to. You can imagine how long he lasted... which is a pity, since his V/O and lines are less annoying than the Assassin's, even if he's still a stereotype.)

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On 02/09/2017 at 9:17 PM, TychoCelchuuu said:

I've been watching this guy stream the game on the highest difficulty + Ironman and it seems exactly like a puzzle. He definitely can't beat it blind wtihout prior knowledge - he's had to restart a few times already. So perhaps the solution is upping the difficulty.

 

I admit my perspective may be a bit skewed. Still, 2012 XCOM lineage is a game about pod management. War of the Chosen tries to challenge this a bit with the Chosen, but also gives players a whole bunch of powerful new tools. Especially the templar and the reaper classes are very powerful, right from the start. Early game is pretty much as RNG dependent as ever, and the late game is even more predictable and controllable than before. Grenadiers are as op as ever, but the new additions combined with training center makes all squad compositions more powerful. It makes WotC very forgiving, and any kind of a measured approach is probably survivable. The game even forces you to level up multiple characters with the fatigue -mechanic.

 

I do appreciate the game for it. I mean it is good, I think, that you don't need extensive knowledge of the game mechanics. But I also derive less enjoyment from the tactical battles, since I almost always feel I have multiple options for handling things, and that I often have guaranteed options. The rulers are the most significant challenge thus far (I haven't completed the campaign yet), and even they are quite manageable. Which is not to say that legendary - ironman would be easy. It will still require patience and knowledge of the game mechanics and the scripted stuff.

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43 minutes ago, unimural said:

I admit my perspective may be a bit skewed. Still, 2012 XCOM lineage is a game about pod management. War of the Chosen tries to challenge this a bit with the Chosen, but also gives players a whole bunch of powerful new tools. Especially the templar and the reaper classes are very powerful, right from the start. Early game is pretty much as RNG dependent as ever, and the late game is even more predictable and controllable than before. Grenadiers are as op as ever, but the new additions combined with training center makes all squad compositions more powerful. It makes WotC very forgiving, and any kind of a measured approach is probably survivable. The game even forces you to level up multiple characters with the fatigue -mechanic.

 

I do appreciate the game for it. I mean it is good, I think, that you don't need extensive knowledge of the game mechanics. But I also derive less enjoyment from the tactical battles, since I almost always feel I have multiple options for handling things, and that I often have guaranteed options. The rulers are the most significant challenge thus far (I haven't completed the campaign yet), and even they are quite manageable. Which is not to say that legendary - ironman would be easy. It will still require patience and knowledge of the game mechanics and the scripted stuff.

 

What are your opinions on the Beta Strike modifier for campaign creation, if you've tried it? It's a set of changes that makes moving from pod to pod and wiping each out as soon as they activate less feasible. I avoided it myself, since the main change is doubled hitpoints for soldiers and aliens, which would probably lengthen the tactical segments drastically, but it's still interesting to consider.

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On 14/09/2017 at 5:43 PM, Gormongous said:

 

What are your opinions on the Beta Strike modifier for campaign creation, if you've tried it? It's a set of changes that makes moving from pod to pod and wiping each out as soon as they activate less feasible. I avoided it myself, since the main change is doubled hitpoints for soldiers and aliens, which would probably lengthen the tactical segments drastically, but it's still interesting to consider.

 

I haven't played with the Beta Strike, so all of this purely theoretical on my part. I do think it is an interesting option, and if Long War 2 will not be updated for WotC I think I will try a Beta Strike campaign, although I'm a very slow player and Beta Strike will extend the mission play time for me a fair bit.

 

In general, I think it will make the early game a bit more difficult (although accidental pod activations will be less serious, sectoids will be more of a threat), the mid game possibly easier and the late-ish game kind of brutal. It will make melee a lot more situational, but will not really hurt templars, thanks to momentum, I suspect. The low damage on reapers will hurt, but their main advantage is their extreme scouting ability, and they're always quite secondary as damage dealers.

 

Grenadiers will loose a lot of their power, and possibly make support grenadiers a better choice. I'd presume cover in general will matter more. No more ignoring cover and running next to enemies for kills on small pods. You will get a lot more wounds, and that will probably delay ranking up by a few missions, which might be the biggest thing to adapt to. Especially on harder difficulties it may make a big difference.

 

I presume one of the worst things will be reinforcements. With 2x health they can really mess up a mission that has been going will. Also things like chrysalids, berserkers and alien regen in all shapes may be quite terrifying. Repeaters will be quite mandatory for all weapons, I presume. Alien rulers and chosen will be quite tough to deal with. I'd presume repeaters will proc for most of these fights. Mechs will also hurt, as killing them in the first turn is difficult. This will probably make specialists more important. Psi troops will also be a powerful strategy, I'd presume. Anything that helps you control the active aliens.

 

All in all, I suspect there will be some mechanics which will feel quite broken, but the overall difficulty to be somewhere below Long War 2.

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