Chris

The End of Mad Men: "The Forecast"

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The End of Mad Men 3:

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The Forecast

It's an episode of highs and lows—for its characters, anyway. We loved this episode of Mad Men from start to finish, featuring standout moments from Don, Sally, Joan, Peggy, and Glen's chest hair.

(Sorry for the delay on this thread!)

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I think Joan has become one of the most human characters on this show. She definitely did not start out that way. In earlier seasons, she was quick to use her looks to demean other people (particularly women), but has managed to move past that to become a truly empathetic person. It's a nice contrast to the critics leveled at beautiful Don and Betty in this episode. Joan has probably had the most growth out of any character on this show, including Peggy, who has grown professionally but is still really stunted emotionally.

 

To answer the question raised on the cast: there's no way Joan was being serious about giving up her kid. I rewatched that scene and it's clear from their conversation that Joan is throwing this guy's unsaid, but heavily implied ultimatum in his face. Maybe there are shades of seriousness in her attack, probably due to the incredible frustration of being a single mother in that period (or any period), but I doubt it extends farther than that.

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This episode was so great, loved it.

Joan was definitely being sarcastic with her "I'm gonna send my child away" chat. I thougt she was telling him what she thought he wanted to hear, but in an insincere fuck you kind of way.

Think I posted this in another thread but here is the interview mentioned on the podcast

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Yeah I should rewatch that scene. I was taking notes at the same time it was up and just went "WHAT?" and kept watching. Glad I just missed something.

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My initial response was, "I'm sure that was a joke…" BUT… I then thought back to the way she said goodbye to Kevin earlier in the episode from the doorway, after she'd left her apartment, as an afterthought, and it was no longer as clear. Definitely an interesting scene.

 

What a great episode, though!

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My initial response was, "I'm sure that was a joke…" BUT… I then thought back to the way she said goodbye to Kevin earlier in the episode from the doorway, after she'd left her apartment, as an afterthought, and it was no longer as clear. Definitely an interesting scene.

What a great episode, though!

I took that goodbye differently. She's exasperated, angry so storms out without saying goodbye. Then he says goodbye, she's upset so takes a moment to compose herself before replying, she feels bad.

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Steam of thoughts as I listen to the Podcast:

 

The scenes with Betty and Glen were so gross! The whole time I was watching it I was wondering if the Glen had been using Sally to stay close to Betty.

 

It looks like Don has reached peak not working at work, which is great, except that work is all he is. 

 

I am glad I don't see the "Next time on Mad Men" things anymore, they were so annoying and pointless.

 

P.S. Rodger now has the Octopus painting in his office!!!!!!

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I've never really understood what we're supposed to make of the Betty-Glen relationship.  I generally have assumed the situation was that Glen had a crush on Betty that was a little advanced for his years, and Betty was maybe a little more pleased by that than a reasonable well-adjusted adult should have been.  That version of things makes both parties a little odd, but not especially inappropriate.  

 

But sometimes I have wondered if we were supposed to take Betty as having an even less healthy reaction to Glen's interest than mere narcissistic enjoyment.  I recall sometime around season 3 there was a scene where Glen's mom observed some interaction between Betty and Glen, and responded by saying something along the lines of "stay away from my kid, you sicko," seeming to believe Betty had a creepier intent.  Does anyone else remember that? Do I have that right?  If so, this episode would suggest that Mrs. Glen may have had an accurate read on the situation.  (Granted, Glen is an adult now, kinda, but Betty didn't seem especially interested in him when she thought he was a stranger, it was only after learning it was Glen that she got all flustered).

 

Are we really supposed to think that in these interactions with Glen, Betty was genuinely attracted to the pre-teen boy who was obsessed with her?  I have a hard time understanding why they would write Betty that way.  Maybe Matthew Weiner was just throwing his awkward, wooden-acting son a bone by writing him a fictional love interest who would be miles out of his league in reality?

 

On an oddly similar note, what did you all make of Don's reaction to Sally's "fast" friend?  I took Don to be politely humoring her and being as appropriate as he could be without humiliating her, not actually supporting her advances the way Sally later suggests, but I've seen some reviewers on the internet argue that Don was fairly called out.  Don is capable of a lot, but I couldn't imagine his reaction was anything more than amusement at this silly child thinking she was some sly seductress.

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The early Betty/Glen stuff demonstrates Betty's stunted emotional development. She definitely revels in the attention, and she's so childish that she doesn't see what's wrong in the situation. Contrast that to Don's flirting with Sally's friend. He definitely knows what's going on and yet continues to encourage this girl. Sally is full justified in calling him out.

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I agree that the Betty/Glen stuff reflects Betty's immaturity and unhealthy need for attention, that's a logical explanation. The more overt sexualization of their relationship in this episode, plus my (admittedly vague) recollection of occasional hints of something more inappropriate going on made me wonder if I was supposed to be picking up on something creepier. Their scenes together have been sufficiently few and far between that it's hard to place everything in context when it comes back up for the first time in a few years.

I hadn't seen Don as encouraging or flirting with Sally's friend. He was definitely trying to be the charming Cool Dad with Sally's friends, but I viewed his facial expressions/body language in the exchanges with the one girl as suggesting he was uncomfortable with the direction of her questions. He was in an awkward spot--when she starts asking "where do you live? Is it in a penthouse?" I'm not sure how he could have responded in a way that would shut down that line of questioning without embarrassing her. I guess he could dismissively answer with something short and change the subject? Maybe I'm grading Don on too generous a curve compared to his typical bad behavior--I will admit that, even though I thought he was trying to spare her feelings by ignoring the not-so-subtle subtext of her questions, I wouldn't have been totally shocked if the next scene showed the two of them in bed together.

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I hadn't seen Don as encouraging or flirting with Sally's friend. He was definitely trying to be the charming Cool Dad with Sally's friends, but I viewed his facial expressions/body language in the exchanges with the one girl as suggesting he was uncomfortable with the direction of her questions. He was in an awkward spot--when she starts asking "where do you live? Is it in a penthouse?" I'm not sure how he could have responded in a way that would shut down that line of questioning without embarrassing her. I guess he could dismissively answer with something short and change the subject? Maybe I'm grading Don on too generous a curve compared to his typical bad behavior--I will admit that, even though I thought he was trying to spare her feelings by ignoring the not-so-subtle subtext of her questions, I wouldn't have been totally shocked if the next scene showed the two of them in bed together.

 

I felt that Don was a little put off by the advances of Sally's friend, but he made a clear decision to roll with it when she took a cigarette. I think Sally's reaction is justified in that case, especially if Don's talking about these girls' bright futures while going through the motions of womanizing.

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This week: Don is everybody's Cool Dad! Don's existential crisis is EVERYONE'S existential crisis.

 

It's not that Don isn't working at work per se, he's just...middle management now. And so he has the archetypal middle management problem ("More to think about, but less to do"). I loved Don's scene with Ted Chaugh. What interesting here is that all along we've been shown that Don is Sisyphus: he's only really happy when he has a problem to solve. But there are no more problems. He's fat and happy and safe, and there's only 4 episodes left. He's learned enough that it's possible that this time he won't just create a problem for himself as he's done in the past, but it's not clear that he knows how to just be. That, I suspect, is the conflict we'll be seeing in the remainder of the series.

 

The "creepy" thing from way back was that Betty gave Glen a lock her her hair. Glen and Betty's relationship has never been sexual, not really. Glen was obsessed with Betty in a sort of typically child-like way, but is weird enough not to grow out of it (or pretend he has). His interest in Sally wasn't dishonest in that regard, it's not that he's interested in Sally as a way to get to Betty, it's that he's legitimately interested in Sally, he's just interested in the parts that she inherited from Betty. He knows, because he's been told, that his interest in Betty in inappropriate because he's a child and she'd an adult, so he's basking in the glow of her reflected presence, as it were.

 

But now that he's an adult, that can change, right? That's what he thinks at least.

 

For Betty's part, Sally (and Sarah above) summarized it well at the end of the episode. There's no sexual attraction per se, Betty just can't help herself. She loves the attention, and again, while she knows it's inappropriate, she can't help herself. When it's so clear that somebody really worships you, it's hard to turn them away.

 

I was a tiny bit disappointed with the whatsisname getting fired bit. One of the things I absolutely delight in is that Mad Men consistently defies expectations built on standard screenwriting tropes. But the moment Don told his Lucky Strike story, you knew that the kid was going to use the wrong approach. While it got us where we wanted to be ("You're not even better, you're just handsome"), it was a bit of a letdown that the path to get there was so clear.

 

I am glad I don't see the "Next time on Mad Men" things anymore, they were so annoying and pointless.

 

P.S. Rodger now has the Octopus painting in his office!!!!!!

On the contrary, "Next Time on Mad Men" is the best. Somebody opens a door! Don is incredulous! Roger is angry! Peggy is unsatisfied! I actually want a supercut of all 7 seasons of them as a special feature on a BluRay or something.

 

Weiner is on the record as saying that he hates them, so they intentionally cut them to reveal as little information as possible. As a result, they're almost a dada-ist art piece masquerading as promotional material.

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Catching up on the podcasts, and I wanted to comment on Don writing the forecast.

 

Don shits on Chaough and Peggy's ambitions in part because there's no urgency to them. Don only really functions in an emergency. He only feels alive when he's actually _fighting_. Just climbing isn't enough. (It reminds me of this one 

about a tiger and a strawberry). Peggy and Ted are fat and happy, and want to become fatter and happier. That's the difference. It's no coincidence that Don mentions that he was always worried about whether he would exist next year. That's the kind of struggle that he needs.

 

We see this more clearly in the next episode, as the McCann buyout comes home to roost and Don remembers how to be alive, if only briefly.

 

In many ways, Ted Chaough has always functioned as a foil for Don. Here, I think we're seeing, as we have several times before, how somebody who doesn't have Don's essential existential uncertainty behaves. This is consistent with Ted's previous actions from last season where he threatened to scuttle the acquisition. He didn't want to be constantly fighting anymore.

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