Jake

Idle Thumbs 206: Owen Wilson's Nose

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It's cool, because you've managed to pull in people who all fit in really well to the feel of the cast. The only thing that bums me out is Sean being too busy to sit in regularly both because I can tell he loves being on the cast and because his competitive streak lends another angle to discussions that I enjoy (in addition to his narrative/writing opinions).

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Have you guys been enjoying the crazy rotating host thing that's been happening lately? I've liked it as a participant because it means each week I get to talk with a different mix of people but I can never tell what it's like outside.

 

I like all of you, and I like all of you on the podcast. There are times when I will want to hear the perspective of a voice that's not there that week, but in addition to who's on, not in place of.

 

If I have one podcast regret it's that there aren't enough Hot Scoops, but I know there's nothing you can do about that.

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This week's episode description text is currently #1 in my rankings for "most baffling when read before listening to the episode".

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Even though it would have been kinda mean, when Spaff was described as having worked on the most notable Vita game,I secretly hoped someone would say Persona 4 Golden.

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I think Chris is playing Ori in a unsatisfying way or a "wrong" way haha (just kidding). The way ( that I like to play) Metroidvanias is to run trough the game, maybe pick up some powerups that you find on the way then when you get all of your abilities you just get all of the stuff in the end and I find that part very satisfying :). I had a blast running trough Ori. Just a bummer that you can't go back to some areas so I got 100% in every area except in one area that I can't go back to.

But I get stuck in other stupid loops like sidequests or canvas of prayer quests in Lightning Returns or just doing every stupid thing Shadow Of Mordor before moving on to the second area. I just can't move on before I do them even if I know that I'm not optimizing my "fun" to time ratio :P

The Moon Logo and the visual effects in Ori reminds me so much of The Swapper for some reason, is there any correlation or am i making that up?

Also, finally a Nick Breckon soundboard!

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I've enjoyed the recent rotating host segments. If we include guests I think they have all been interesting, thoughtful people who have brought a good energy to their episodes. I wonder if it helps in the face of the OLD TIMERS have less ability/time to devote to games broadly. To that end I think Danielle has been super vital to the show, both in enthusiasm for new stuff and a general optimism. 

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Have you guys been enjoying the crazy rotating host thing that's been happening lately? I've liked it as a participant because it means each week I get to talk with a different mix of people but I can never tell what it's like outside.

 

The only downside is that I have to go a while without some of the voices that I really value, but new voices are always good, especially if they plug so easily into the Thumbs vibe, and I can always count on Nick Breckon to return every twenty-odd episodes anyway.

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I've enjoyed the recent rotating host segments. If we include guests I think they have all been interesting, thoughtful people who have brought a good energy to their episodes. I wonder if it helps in the face of the OLD TIMERS have less ability/time to devote to games broadly. To that end I think Danielle has been super vital to the show, both in enthusiasm for new stuff and a general optimism. 

 

Yeah I would say the only thing I really miss is when Chris was really obsessed with Spelunky, and Sean was really obsessed with DOTA, and we got the deep dives into those games. That's the sort of stuff I love, but I guess the other side to that is some people were sick about hearing about those games, and games that you can obsess over in that way are kind of rare and special events anyway.

 

The mix of people has been totally fine though, and just strikes me as the inevitability of busy adults managing schedules for a weekly event. 

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Couple thoughts that occurred to me while listening to Guitar Hero FMV talk

 

I'm ok with it being cheesy FMVs because I found the character animations in Guitar Hero to be really creepy.  The drummer especially moves like an animatronic figure you'd see at Chuck E. Cheese or in Five Nights at Freddys.

 

I wonder if they'll reintroduce other instruments down the line again.  If that's the case, then having a POV of the guitarist alone kind of ruins things.  I would imagine they'd have to redo it so that you're the drummer or singer or whatever else.  Also the I found the best part of Guitar Hero to be getting together with friends to play as a "band", which also kind of breaks the first person perspective.  I suppose in the end it won't matter too much since you're ostensibly going to be looking mainly at the note highway.

 

Hearing that there are different audiences that will dress appropriately for different genres makes me want to start a band that blends as many genres together as possible in each song.  We would have the specific goal of getting a song in Guitar Hero Live just to see the FMV sequence.

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I'm ok with it being cheesy FMVs because I found the character animations in Guitar Hero to be really creepy.  The drummer especially moves like an animatronic figure you'd see at Chuck E. Cheese or in Five Nights at Freddys.

 

Oh man, if they have a Guitar Hero: Rock-A-Fire Explosion expansion that would be awesome.  I will 100% "Love In This Club" on Expert!

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Yeah I would say the only thing I really miss is when Chris was really obsessed with Spelunky, and Sean was really obsessed with DOTA, and we got the deep dives into those games. That's the sort of stuff I love, but I guess the other side to that is some people were sick about hearing about those games, and games that you can obsess over in that way are kind of rare and special events anyway.

 

The mix of people has been totally fine though, and just strikes me as the inevitability of busy adults managing schedules for a weekly event. 

 

I think the other hosts were sick of hearing about those games. I have the impression that there's a level of dissonance between what the people in the room can stand to hear or they perceive the listener can stand, and what the general audience will actually tolerate. It's not just with Idle Thumbs, I hear other podcasts self-censoring as well when there's no need. The reason I listen to your podcast is because I like listening to you talk about stuff. Don't curtail the part where you get excited to actually talk about the stuff!

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I think I prefer podcasts that are just the same people each time but given how much else every individual person seems to have going on (I've assumed that Sean's regular absences are a result of being hard at work writing Firewatch, Chris has a jet-setting lifestyle flying all over the damn place, Danielle has all sorts of Polygon stuff in addition to working on a game of her own, Jake's always one week away from some major utility collapsing on him and Nick Breckon is Nick Breckon) it's a very reasonable approach.

 

I assumed that the addition of Danielle as a regular was in part because you guys were too busy with Firewatch to be up on video games like you used to, and in that role (among many many others) she's been a great addition. If making Spaff a sixth thumb is a step further in that direction I'd be cool with that. At this point I still don't really know his voice really well, but I imagine the more he's on the more prominent it'll become.

 

He just needs a nickname.

yes.

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When the idea of having a virtual music instructor standing to one side during a Guitar Hero Live run was proposed, I immediately envisioned there being a separate instructor for each difficulty level, and of course the Expert level would be J.K. Simmons reprising his role from Whiplash.

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When I saw the title of this episode and the games discussed, I assumed Owen Wilson would be getting a mention because of his role in the Wes Anderson film "Bottle Rocket". But he came up completely separately, which was very pleasing!

 

Re. rotating hosts, I enjoy it. We always have some of the regulars to anchor it, and it's not like it's very episode forever now, written in stone. It's cool to have Spaff on again (I forgot he's living in the US so it momentarily confused me to hear him on two 'casts in quick succession) but I hope he stops being so English and speaks up a bit more often next time!

 

Re. lore/alt-game metaphors - it seems to me that the Rule Of Thumb is, as with so many things, "it's great when it's done well, but the majority of the time it's done badly." 

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I was convinced that Guitar Hero was brought back purely because Rock Band was back.

 

Rock Band is back because for Harmonix, Rock Band is a platform, and even if the fake plastic rock genre is dead, there's still money in it and it's still something they'd have an emotional investment in.

 

Guitar Hero, by comparison, was positioned as a fad, so Activision released a fuck-ton of them, as physical products, into stores where regular people would buy them, and moved on when the fad died. I'm actually a little upset that Activision's been working on this for three years, because wasn't the whole point that Guitar Hero was a fad that they'd exploit as long as possible?

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Video James Spafford

Video "Spaff" James Spafford

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I was convinced that Guitar Hero was brought back purely because Rock Band was back.

 

Rock Band is back because for Harmonix, Rock Band is a platform, and even if the fake plastic rock genre is dead, there's still money in it and it's still something they'd have an emotional investment in.

 

Guitar Hero, by comparison, was positioned as a fad, so Activision released a fuck-ton of them, as physical products, into stores where regular people would buy them, and moved on when the fad died. I'm actually a little upset that Activision's been working on this for three years, because wasn't the whole point that Guitar Hero was a fad that they'd exploit as long as possible?

 

Looking at the way this has been designed, Activision seems to have learned the lessons of the previous instrument boom-bust cycle, and they're setting up the new GH to create a sustainable long-term business, just like Harmonix did (and wants to continue). This time, they are not cashing in on a fad, just building something relatively modest, and designed around the series' still-compelling core.

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I find that difficult to believe, based on the significant barrier to entry for these games. The way Guitar Hero and Rock Band got over that barrier the first time is through novelty; now that these games aren't new, and most people have given it a go, are people still going to be willing to spend at least a hundred dollars for a guitar that only works on one game they've sort of already played? Harmonix is used to making games for a niche audience (in this case: people still playing Rock Band 3), and they are apparently intending to ensure backwards compatibility with the standard instruments, but Guitar Hero Live has a different button layout so the home console versions will require a unique, expensive peripheral.

 

Activision seems to have learned the lessons of the previous instrument boom-bust cycle

 

My concern is that they didn't; they had the right strategy to begin with (that the fake plastic rock genre was a fad that always had a limited shelf life) and then felt irrational regret when it eventually collapsed, just as it was always going to. Harmonix has a sustainable long-term business through Rock Band in the same way that you can still buy Beanie Babies - there's always going to be a few people out there who actually like the thing that everyone else is done with.

 

Honestly I think the smartest thing they're doing is not limiting themselves to making a game that requires a plastic instrument - it might not feel as good, playing the game on an iPhone, but the barrier to entry is low enough that you'll get some people giving it a whirl and it's not like rhythm games have collapsed.

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At this point I still don't really know his voice really well...

 

He's the one with the English accent.

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Maybe the new Guitar Hero could have a tutorial level were the fmv setting is one of an internal disney coprorate event. There would be no you suck signs, only polite applause.

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