ThunderPeel2001

Phaedrus' Street Crew
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Content count

    8780

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by ThunderPeel2001

  11. Posted

    Episode 1 The Target is the pilot of The Wire. I don't know how it is in international markets, but as far as I know all American syndicated TV shows start with pilots, regardless of the nature of the show. Even if it's going to be a major long-form story, it's still better to invest in the story production and never shoot than to follow through after a terrible start. At least from a financial standpoint.

    Of course, I totally agree. It makes the best sense to spend money on the cheapest part of production, getting it right, before moving into the most expensive part -- but when has common sense been a strong suit of network executives? :) I could be wrong, but seeing how The Wire is HBO, and the show was an exercise in "long form" story-telling, I imagine they would have gotten the scripts right, and been happy with the idea of a series, before filming a true pilot episode. But, as I say, I could be wrong.

    Not sure what you mean about "American syndicated TV shows", though, as The Wire wasn't sold into syndication until much later in its life.

  12. Posted

    This conversation needs to end. It has completely derailed a thread about a really cool THING that bears discussion in its own right entirely aside from the word used to describe the category of thing it is.

    But that's The Idle Thumbs Way™

    Edit: Panic over, we're talking about Gravity Bone now. *phew!*

  13. Posted

    For the most part, people agree that TFoL is a game and that the debate of whether it is one or not doesn't matter.

    Then don't engage in it...?

    Most of us have voiced various explanations of why we disagree with you. Deal with it.

    I've only ever responded to people specifically telling me why I'm wrong, or to respond to clarification. I haven't taken apart other people's opinions unless they were directed specifically at me.

    If you played it and somehow concluded it's not a game, call it what you think it is.

    I'm not sure there's a term for it yet.

    We won't give a shit or whine at you if you call it a deterministic digital interactive diorama or whatever you want if that's what you think it is.

    This would make perfect sense if people weren't actively trying to deconstruct my opinion -- apparently the "we" you refer to does give a shit.

    Looks to me more like someone's playing the oppression olympics.

    Yes, that appears to be you, doesn't it?

  14. Posted

    edit: Note also that under your definition, the card game "War" isn't actually a card game because there is no challenge (you just flip cards according to the predetermined rules - it's no more challenging than pressing forward). But War is a card game.

    Hurrah! Thanks for coming up with a good example. "War" falls into the same category as Snakes and Ladders, I guess, which is to say, it's completely random as to who will win -- but even more so, because you don't even get to "try" and roll a six (or whatever). I'm not sure I'd consider "War" to be a game (and according to the Wikipedia article you linked to, I'm not alone in that), but I have to concede that it's often seen as a game. (A really shit game that only a child learning to count would play, presumably.)

    There ARE challenges in "War", though, as you can lose. The challenge is that your chosen half of a deck consistently has higher numbers than the other half. If it doesn't, you lose the hand, and so on, until you have no cards left -- So maybe I have to agree it IS a game, by my own definition. (Note: You seem to have confused "challenges" with "decisions" -- most games, certainly the most enjoyable ones, feature decisions, but not all.) You can't lose at TFoL, just like you can't lose when reading a novel.

    Still, "War" has definitely come closest to convincing me that I'm in a greyer area than I previously imagined... What a shitty "game" that is! (I've never heard of it myself -- no surprise, who the hell would want to play it, even as a kid?) Hmm.

  15. Posted

    So... One my clients is worried that users of their website won't be aware that they can scroll down. So much so, in fact, that they want a message to appear at the bottom of the browser window saying "Scroll down for more" if the mouse is near the bottom of the screen. Because, you know, most people aren't aware that websites tend to scroll downwards. #helpme

  17. Posted

    I thought Casino Royale was definitely keeping in the spirit of the first couple of James Bond movies, although I didn't love this latest one as much as everyone else.

    I have finally broken through my resistance to Community and, about five episodes from the end of the first season, fell in love with it. The way I see it (and the paintball episode is largely to do with it, I guess), it's the American version of Spaced. Yes, Community takes place in a different universe, but I'm learning to accept it for what it is, especially now Jeff isn't a total ass anymore. (Interestingly, I just watched an episode where they showed how important Pierce was to the group dynamic -- it'll be interesting if there's a fifth season!)

  19. Posted

    I guess part of my frustration is feeling like I'm going around in circles... with nobody apparently understanding what I'm saying.

    I can't think of a single example of a game that doesn't feature some sort of goal, and some sort of challenge needed to be overcome to reach said goal.

    With Tetris (a game without an end), your goal is to stay "alive" for as long as possible (and get a huge highscore). The challenge is that there's falling blocks that, unless you clear them, will "kill" you.

    With a novel (NOT a game, in my books) your goal is to understand and reach the end of the story. The challenge is that you have to read the words in order from beginning to end to understand the story. You also have to understand the language is was written in, I guess. That's not much of a challenge to overcome, but novels aren't regarded as "games".

    I feel the same thing can be said about TFoL -- the goal is to reach the end of the story, but the challenge is to simply press forward (more or less). The only way I could not overcome this "challenge" is simply not to "play".

    As I said before: If someone could give me an example of a "traditional" game, one that nobody debates as being a game, (e.g Snakes and Ladders, Tag, Golf, etc.) that doesn't feature goals (and challenges needed to be overcome to reach those goals), I'd be convinced.

    Also, I'm not convinced by the "I played it, therefore it's a game argument": I can play a movie, I can play a musical instrument, I can play a CD.

    Edit: And... I'm sucked in again ;(

  21. Posted

    So, why aren't you convinced by Lord Proteus' argument? Do you go around saying that comics aren't comics if they aren't funny? Do you have anything substantive to add aside from your claim that games require something that some games (like TFoL) don't have? You ask for an example of a game without goals and challenges, but you're posting in a thread of one of the best examples.* Thirty Flights of Loving is obviously a game in the sense that most people talk about games (that is, it's sold in the games section of Steam and when you tell someone to play it you tell them "hey check out this game") and even if it's not a game in the sense of your pedantic meaning of "game," you haven't explained why anyone should care, any more than you've explained why we should care about whether a comic book is actually comical or not.

    *TFoL does of course have goals - get to the end. Eat an orange. Discover why Anita is pointing a gun at you or where she got the robot limbs. Save Borges. Escape the airport. But whatever.

    Ok, I'm done here. This is rapidly turning into YET ANOTHER "me versus everyone else" bullying match. Just like with Microsoft's relationship with Blu-ray, I've expressed an opinion, someone has asked me to clarify, and then lots of people decide to join in and are apparently taking my opinion as a personal affront. In this particular case, I was responding to SiN's request for me to clarify. I've expressed what I (continue to believe) in the clearest terms I can (and in the case of this particular post, I've already answered every question -- apart from the one where I'm supposed to justify why someone should care about what I think... wtf? And unrelated questions about comics.)

  22. Posted

    Yeah pilots are always hit-or-miss. I just started watching The Wire for the first (I know, so late to the game), and after watching the pilot, I couldn't understand why everyone was obsessed it with. Based on the pilot alone, it just seemed like a really well-acted, well-written cop show, but not the 'best TV show of all time.' It took 2-3 more episodes for the show to convince me of why it deserved such high praise.

    I don't believe The Wire had a pilot... It was just commissioned. Also, it's an example of long-form television, so it's quite unique in that sense. BSG was a backdoor pilot, so a little different, but I definitely agree it wasn't the strongest opening. Pilots tend to have been crafted for months (sometimes years), whereas a typical episode of a show is broken in a week. I think it's hard for regular episodes to have the same level of crafting that a pilot has. (Consider Modern Family -- beautiful structure in the pilot episode that I don't think has ever been matched by another episode, no matter how great they might be.)

    I agree they can be hit and miss, though. Sometimes a show will evolve into something better than was originally imagined.

  24. Posted

    My least favorite episode is probably 1, but mostly for the same reasons any pilot episode tends to the weakest.

    Huh, interesting analogy. For me, Pilot episodes of TV shows are often the strongest. They're the ones that have had the most amount of work put in to them. It may take writers time to get to grips with the show itself, but pilots tend to be rock solid, IMO. (If you want to compare it to the first "proper" episode of a show, then I'd agree: That's the one where they have try and expand on what the pilot did.)

  25. Posted

    Some very interesting points! I'm still not convinced, though. Also, to clarify: I said this before, and I'll say it again, I'm not criticising TFoL, nor am I trying to "protect" games. There's no subtext at the core of my belief. I just don't think it's a game.

    I also don't think it's limiting anything to say it's not a game. It's just a word. I'm not detracting from it by saying it's something else. It's still something very interesting.

    If someone could give me an example of a "traditional" game, one that nobody debates as being a game, (e.g Snakes and Ladders, Tag, Golf, etc.) that doesn't feature goals (and challenges needed to be overcome to reach those goals), I'd be convinced.

    But I'm not sure why so many people WANT TFOL to be considered a game. Isn't putting it in the same category as Tetris somewhat selling it short?