Guts

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Posts posted by Guts

  2. Posted

    3 hours ago, MechE said:

    Of all the theories around the ending I've read, this one seems be the most compelling. It's not without it's flaws but pretty consistent with the finer details of episode 18 and provides a reasonably satisfying conclusion to the TP story.

     

    http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/

     

     

    Pretty interesting, I prefer the idea that it is a prison created by Judy instead of a trap created by the fireman. Mostly because of the way Laura was removed from coopers grasp with the scream. But either way, I think there are some good points.

     

    .. another thought, the headlights that passed them on the highway, Judy figures out where they are headed rushes ahead to set up a false front, but can't help using the same fake names.

  3. Posted

    There are lots of ways you can interpret the last hour of the show, I haven't seen anyone (and maybe they have because i haven't read every single post) defend the possibility that Dale Cooper was just the dream of an FBI agent named Richard who, on waking from a long and strange dream starts experiencing a fugue state where he still thinks he is the character from his dream. He had a traumatic night with his lover/possible work associate that helped to initiate his break. His dream of Laura in based on a case he is working on involving a woman in danger by a creepy guy named bob. He goes to her work gets her address, at her house she has already killed the man named bob, dead guys looks a lot like Frank Silva. He convinces her to go to a town he remembers from a different case he worked on then somehow his waking dream drags her into it. 

     

    I don't really subscribe to this as a conclusion in general, but its still worth exploring.

     

    -- last minute thought what if cooper is now an inhabiting spirit that takes over an FBI agent named Richard.

     

  4. Posted

    I think the idea of being fooled or laughed at is understandable, but is off the mark. I think the show is intentionally subverting the emotions and expectations of the viewers to force them out of their comfort zones and put them in a different head space. This is what most modern art aims at, not what televised drama does. A good story is one you get lost in, this show is intently trying to make you aware of its unreality, it wants to pull you in and push you back out until you realize it's not reality, it is a constructed dream we are all sharing.

     

     Though I can understand feeling upset, if i was invited to watch a baseball game and it turned out to be cricket I would feel fooled as well. Though everything Lynch has done in the last 20 years could have warned you that you weren't getting that old warm toned twin peaks. If Peyton and Engles made season 3, i am sure we would have gotten more of the same old show, but would it have felt right? I think we would have been left full of empty nostalgia and left feeling hollow.

     

    I admit my own expectations were twisted and it felt a bit uncomfortable, but movies and shows like that are the kind I search for so I can't help but love it all. The last moment felt right, the emotional weight of 25 years of horror crashing down.

  6. Posted

    I know when fire walk with me was being made they planned on doing (i think) 3 films, was some of the black and white footage of Laura and dale in the woods filmed back then? Was it earmarked to be put in one of the other films that were never made? Even the Pete fishing stuff could have been filmed in 92, or was just left over b roll from the pilot, also it could be just digital manipulation. Who can say.

     

    Whatever internal logic exists to explain the last episode, What it felt like was a character from a deep dream where crazy bob heads fly around attacking people, left and went into a different dream that was a step closer to reality. The character was still on the same mission from the deeper dream, but after trying to make the two realities connect, fails, until the last second when something reaches out from and even deeper dream to grab them.

  7. Posted

    15 hours ago, Lindsay said:

    It's simple.  Diane is pronounced Naido backwards.  

     

    Great catch, I was thinking it was a 80% anagram, but that makes more sense. 

     

    - It took me a bit to piece it together but the smile emoji referencing bobs smile which comes out in the story, which as a message means kill "all"  Referencing "he wears a smile, everybody run".

     

    -Also I like the juxtaposition of coopers personal voice recorded messages to Diane vs Mr.C's impersonal texts and emoji es.

     

    -It's amazing how much thought went into anticipating the viewers emotions and reactions to the choices made by the show, and how they play with us, drawing things out and bring them around to a satisfying emotional response.  While simultaneously winking at us.

     

    -In retrospect, Dale Cooper was always kind of a super hero, his power is being the most effective person at everything he does, (Mr.C has this as well) which means if he was active and running around for 18 episodes it wouldn't leave much conflict to resolve, or they would have come up with ways to deflate/ stymie him. Which would be somewhat out of character for him, the previous seasons had this same problem. So I guess I approve of Dougie.

  8. Posted

    47 minutes ago, wbarnes4393 said:

    Here is something I don't think I've seen or heard anyone mention.  IIRC, back in Part 3, when Coop was in the station on the purple sea, with Naido, the electrical panel he eventually got sucked into at first had the number "15" prominently in the middle.  But then, right before he got sucked in (leaving his shoes), and out the other side in place of Dougie into the "real world," the panel had changed to displaying the number "3".  Of course, that turned out to be Episode (or Part) 3 when Cooper emerged into the regular world.  I have wondered if the 15-to-3 had anything to do with a link from Part 15 to Part 3 of the show.  Of course, we now know that at the end of Part 15, Coop awakened to the mention of Gordon Cole and stuck his fork in the outlet.  I don't know where I'm going with this exactly, just seemed like maybe back in Part 3, Coop was already up to Part 15 in the timeline, but then got sent back to Part 3 in the timeline, where he has been in his Dougie-like stasis until he "caught up" to where he had been with Naido.  Just a theory - not sure what it means exactly.....

     

    Worlds within worlds within worlds. David Lynch is the quizat haderach.

  11. Posted

    16 hours ago, Arianna said:

    So this is a bit off topic - apologies if it is against the rules - but regarding the discussion of women in this season of Twin Peaks, is anyone here watching Top of the Lake? There were a lot of comparisons to Twin Peaks back in 2013 when season 1 came out and season 2 (released in full today on BBC) has leaned into the weirdness even more. There's a lot of violence against women but it stars Elizabeth Moss (and season 2 has Gwendoline Christie!) as the police investigating so there are definitely better and more varied roles for women. Just thought it might be of interest (and am desperate to chat about it).

     

    I think it isn't available to watch in america until September, it will be on hulu then. If i'm wrong please let me know.

  13. Posted

    Ok, so lets all agree that the cultural significance of this show is out of our hands. I can certainly understand why anyone wouldn't like this show, it does everything in its power to subvert your expectations and your desire for emotional satisfaction.

     

    I think my primary pleasure in this show comes from its ability to keep me guessing as to what is going to happen. Most of us have been watching TV for 25-60 years now, and a show like Chicago fire or whatever, falls into a pattern that those of us that have watched a lot of TV can peg the story lines and the characters after about 5 minutes of watching. Even Game of thrones, which I am now watching back to back with twin peaks every Sunday night, and I love, is starting to feel predictable by comparison. 

     

    To be clear it's not the only thing I love about this show, but it seems like the most obvious distinction. I have no idea what is going to happen on this show, its like opening a present every week.

  14. Posted

    1 minute ago, Ford said:

     

    I agree that Lynch and Frost didn't need this. However, just because it's their vision, or that its unconventional, or "Lynchian" (if that has any real meaning) doesn't necessarily make it great. 

     

    Anythings "greatness" is 99% subjective. Even, I would argue that Alexander the Great, probably not as great as we all have been lead to believe.

  15. Posted

    9 hours ago, marblize said:

     

    I saw a theory on reddit that:

     

      Reveal hidden contents

    it's all cooper's dream, a battle of sorts for his soul as he's lying on the floor dying in S2E1, and honestly I could see that working in a non-linear time way rather than a literal 'it's a dream' way, but it'd be so gut-wrenching. 

     

    Are we saying this is a Jacobs Ladder scenario? anyone?

     

    -----------

     

    I do get a little annoyed by peoples need to categorize reality in a television show, especially a David Lynch created one. It's fine to say there may be separate realities taking place within a narrative, but neither is reality. The only reality is you sitting in your living room /bedroom/ airport bathroom/ ect.. watching it on a screen, and lets face it even that reality is somewhat suspect.

  17. Posted

    1 hour ago, Eraserhead72 said:

    Quick brainfart thought.

     

    Philip Gerrard went missing. When he briefly reappeared he said "We Live Inside A Dream". And then he was sucked back to a dream version of Buenos Aires (it must be a different reality or he would wouldn't have been missing and simply called back in using a phone). 

     

    I'm thinking the exact same has happened to Coop. He's stuck inside a dream version of Las Vegas, but the dream is a literal place that exists in its own universe (a trap created by bob). Like all dream logic, reality gets confused within the dream:

     

    Rancho Rosa: The RR

    White Horse: Silver Mustang

    Sycamore Street: Sycamore Trees

    Lancelot: Glastonbury Grove

    One Armed Bandit (slot machines): One Armed Man

    Dale Cooper: Dougie Jones

    ... and more parallels i'm sure.

     

    All of this tracks to the same dream state that happens to the protagonists of Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire. Motifs appear in different forms within the dream that relate to something in the real world... and the protagonist eventually finds out the truth and escapes (even if they don't want to).

     

    This is why, to me, the whole thing feels unreal. The music is different. The acting is different. We're literally not where we are supposed to be.

     

    The reason i mention this here is because Mike then appears in this episode:

     

    "You have to Wake Up. Don't Die. Don't Die. Don't Die."

     

    So, is Coop living inside a dream?

     

    This is a pretty good idea.  I think you are basically right, but it can be true and still technically exist in the same reality as twin peaks ect. It can just be that coop is trapped in a metaphoric reversed version of the old show, much like the first 30 min of fire walk with me. 

     

  18. Posted

    As far as dreams go, I really think Lynch sees TV and film in general as shared dreams, In fire walk with me, David Bowie (agent jeffries) says "we live inside a dream", I don't think he was referring to the denizens of the black lodge. I think he was speaking as a character trapped inside a film telling other characters that they exist in a dream/film. In an art gallery we don't often think of whats hanging on the wall in terms of verisimilitude, but for some reason we need to see films and tv as a representation of reality. It's probably more accurate to say that they are a representation of our dreams.

  19. Posted

    The scene of the run over child seemed to me to be some kind of meta commentary on the overwrought melodrama of the first season of twin peaks. We are given a highly effecting emotional game of a child running away and being caught and hugged by his mother, The game leading to the child's death, The reaction of the crowd, the telephone pole making the sound we heard from the record player at the start of ep1. In the context of the show it feels like this telephone pole is sucking up all the garmonbozia from the crowd, but is the television actually sucking up our garmonbozia? This scene feels like it is constructed just to make us feel those emotions, it does it in such a way that it draws attention to itself as emotionally manipulative. I feel like David Lynch is often, in his work, trying to make us aware that we are watching a construction, ie "its all recorded". As a side note, this scene also made me think that this show would probably be just as effective if it was a silent movie with inter cut cards with all the spoken lines on them. So much of the context can be derived from the expressions of the actors.

     

    Another weird connection I made was that because a dime and nickle both show prominently in this episode, will we get some clarity about what Mike meant at the end of the European cut of the pilot, when after shooting bob he asks coop and Truman if they have a nickle? 

  20. Posted

    18 minutes ago, Atlantic said:

     

    The man on the the is Patrick Fischler, who played Jimmy Barrett in the early seasons of Mad Men. According to his IMDB he was also in Mulholland Drive.

    I would say unforgettably in Mulholland Drive, "There's a man in back of this place, he the one that's doing it. I can see him through the wall." The other guy also plays Thomas Schiff from the dark knight that dent threatens to kill by fliping a coin.

     

    I just want to point out what I think is a call back to Blue Velvet, Dougie's green jacket feels like the "yellow man". Who is a guy known for always wearing a bright yellow jacket. 

  21. Posted

    Random thoughts about show so far,,

     

    I agree that wally is totally dick's bio kid.

     

    I think good and bad coop will get their act together, it makes more sense that we will have 2 fully functional coops playing off each other. It also makes sense that evil coop is out of commission while good coop is still vulnerable. A few cups of joe and he will be OK.

     

    Laura Palmer, if she is ageing in the lodge and is both dead and alive, is it possible the version of her in the lodge could escape at some point. Might the "ring" have put her in the lodge somehow, Could the series end with coop actually saving Laura Palmer?

     

    The jacoby stuff is the only thing that is dragging for me, do we really have to have to see him paint all the shovels one at a time?

     

    It's kind of weird that evil dale looked up all those schematics for the prison he was going to end up in accidentally a day later.

     

    Doesn't dougie's kid look a lot like the strange kid with the drug addict mom that lives in the house across from where coop came out of the socket.

    also what were the numbers she was yelling? is that the kids name?

     

    The photo cole looks at with the weird "alien" in the box, did they say it was right before it happened? So is that what cooper would have looked like to them if they were in the room, or was the the killing thing?

     

    I think Bula doesn't have teeth that's why her lips are like that. 

     

     

  22. Posted

    My weird Bush related grade school story, which I still remember very clearly. We were handed a info sheet that had a list of all the presidential primary candidates for what I think was for the upcoming 88 election. I remember scanning the candidates and seeing the name bush thinking wow I can say Bush, and i mean, say bush in the 80's frat house revenge of the nerds kind of way that was super popular among 3rd graders who's parents didn't care what they watched on television. So i did in fact chant the word BUSH one time and no one laughed or got it at all. It was terrible.

     

    I think in retrospect the room probably thought I was just rooting for Bush to become President, which I wasn't,  but when he won I still felt oddly satisfied that I had accidentally picked the winner.

  24. Posted

    Here's a thing I'm not sure about:

     

    Ray had to get drug tests for his visitations...

    So did he get high to psyche himself up to give up his son, or did he give up his son because he'd gotten high.  

     

    Not that there's much distinction, but I like when a scene has two parts each of which motivates the other.

     

    I see the binge scene as a direct response to the visitation scene, his failure to connect on any level despite his desire to do so. On some level he had to know that the drugs were a choice to stop seeing his son. 

     

    I am generally liking this series overall. I hear a lot of the criticisms of people not buying into it or things feeling fake, and I think you could say that about any film or TV show that you don't buy into. A lot of the problem is the swirl around the show, the expectations, the Hype, the anti Pizzalato sentiment. I feel lucky at this point to have never read an interview with Nick Pizzalato. I actually think I give the show more slack because of the negative reaction it has gotten, I tend to always re-actively look to go in the opposite direction of the majority in most instances. For instance I almost always play the least played character class in any game. 

     

    I do agree that a universal director would be a better way to go. I really love Cary Fukunaga's visual style and I miss it. His Jane Eyre was amazing from a visual perspective, and I will look forward to any thing else he does.

     

    Not to say you don't have a right to your feelings about this show for what ever the reason. I for one can't stand the show parenthood, even though my wife loves it and recently watched the entire series in two months. It is a pretty universally respected and liked show but for what ever reason i decided I didn't like it early on and that never waned. The characters seemed manic and contrived to me and I still won't watch it even though i am pretty sure i am being judgmental and irrational about it. But, who cares it's only entertainment.

     

    P.S. I agree that the musical choice for the "party" was a good choice, it reminded me of something DePalma or Roman Polanski would select, also kind of reminded me of the musical choice in Blue Velvet.