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Posts posted by malgox

  1. So, I have an idea for an "alchemic" skill tree system that I'm sure isn't exactly original, but I'm perplexed as to why it hasn't been used more often in games. Well, I can imagine it could be rife with imbalances and unforeseeable problems, but it still seems worth a try.

    Basically, I'm disattisfied with how RPGs typically put you into a "class" than give you a bunch of linear paths to travel, all based on simply dumping points into confined categories.

    I would propose a system where players choose from different descriptors to further color a base class. Instead, or perhaps in addition to, simply leveling up certain skills they'd instead choose ideas like "fire," "rage" or "bardsong" to modify the entire class. Hence, "alchemic," since you could choose different descriptors to end up with entirely different sorts of characters, not just distinguished by different skill-point allocations.

    Anyway, since this is all rather free-form, I figured I could explain myself best by copying a late-night steam discussion I had with a friend of mine, where we elaborate the basic ideas. Its rough, and long, and fraught with mispellings, but I hope you can see the idea we're trying to hash out:

    malgox: hey--I have an idea about skill trees

    malgox: so; instead of like, levels indifferent attributes

    malgox: what about you have "thresholds" where you take a new "alchemic" element

    malgox: so, you start out as like, vanilla fight

    malgox: but then you have a series of "alchemic specializations"

    malgox: so, you first choose "fire"

    malgox: then, all levelling up is "colored" to have something to do with fire

    malgox: then, you choose "spectral"

    malgox: so eveyrthing, now, also is colored ot have something to do with ghosts, or whatever

    malgox: then you choose more abstract terms, such as "blood frenzy"

    malgox: so, at each threshold level, your abilities all change

    malgox: its not that you jsut "tick" more points into a score

    zigavivei: Im dont completely understand what youre going at...

    malgox: you literally carve more and more identifiers into your class

    malgox: you'd end up being at Ghostly Fiery Frenzied Warrior

    zigavivei: Yopu just skill whatever is associated with a particular word?

    malgox: or something

    malgox: no

    malgox: each "descriptor" modifies EVERYTHING

    malgox: its like adding specializations to a class

    zigavivei: ah i see

    malgox: except each specialization isn't like a new branch of the skill-tree

    malgox: it, rather, "colors" or "flavors" everything

    zigavivei: ok

    malgox: hence, alchemic

    zigavivei: I understand the basic idea now

    malgox: I like the idea because if means you can create truly original class combos

    malgox: instead of just differently alocated skill points

    malgox: say you have 3 base classes

    malgox: than 3 tiers of customizations, with 3 seperate tiers

    malgox: *I mean, 3 tiers of customizations, with 3 choices each

    zigavivei: different choice for each tier

    malgox: yueah

    zigavivei: Ok

    zigavivei: Gotcha

    malgox: you would effecitvely have 28 different options

    zigavivei: wow

    malgox: 3 x 3 x 3 x 3

    malgox: I've seen skill trees adopts something kind of like this

    malgox: but only in a limited sense

    malgox: like SW:TOR having branching class paths at certain levels

    malgox: but its not the same because it isn't modular or combinable

    zigavivei: ok

    malgox: so; thats my idea

    zigavivei: so this is your plan for your class?

    malgox: for Torchlight?

    zigavivei: yes

    malgox: if they had the system, totally

    malgox: I'd be a mother-freakin' bloody ghostly fiery ranger-thing, man

    zigavivei: I mean they dont but it would be interesting to test

    malgox: it would be awesome

    zigavivei: Maybe you could even make a mod like it for the owrkshop

    malgox: if it would be possible, that would be awesome

    malgox: than you could be a stealthy arcane-y dragony ranger

    malgox: and we'd be different enough to justify being the same base class

    zigavivei: lol

    malgox: any way, I like the idea of a skill-tree expanding as you gain power

    malgox: too often if feels like high-level characters end up being more the same

    zigavivei: Is there a way you could make a visual of this

    zigavivei: ?

    malgox: yeah

    malgox: imagine a tree

    zigavivei: I think id understand the structure better if i saw it

    malgox: you start at the base; than it forks into 3 paths

    zigavivei: ok

    malgox: than those 3 paths fork each into 3 paths

    malgox: and so on

    malgox: its actually more like a fractal

    zigavivei: ok

    malgox: so, literally, it branches

    malgox: you start from the same core, but you end up at a different corner of the tree's outermost branches

    malgox: same family, different genes

    zigavivei: What prohibits a full branch from being better than the others? Wouldnt it just devolve into whatever does the most dps anyway?

    malgox: did you see the Extra Credits thing about incomparables

    malgox: in Torchlight, all you want is that final number

    malgox: but in a more complex roleplaying game-thing, there are many ways to achieve an objective

    zigavivei: yes

    zigavivei: ok

    malgox: so, think of a dota hero being constructed this way

    zigavivei: yeah i get what youre saying

    malgox: like, chracter creation being like invoker

    malgox: like, you "invoke" a character class

    zigavivei: yeah

    malgox: so lets say you're designing an open-worldy, party-based game

    malgox: you know, where there's a lot of room for different abilities

    zigavivei: The more im understanding this idea, the better it sounds

    malgox: your bloody beserker dragonscale guntoting archmage would have a different strategy for dealing with a problem than your ethereal monkish bardsong thief

    zigavivei: Thats an excellent idea

    malgox: the bardsong thief unleashes his "howling despair" ability, phasewalks, than roundhouse kicks a guy in the back

    zigavivei: So you could feasably end up playing a stealth mage, or a talk thief, for use of more generic class words.

    malgox: the mage unleashes his fury, fires a volley, has his dragon familiar eat somebodies face, and blasts somebody with a fireball

    zigavivei: tank*

    malgox: yeah

    malgox: I mean, the actually descriptors can be cliched

    malgox: its the combination that woudl be interesting

    zigavivei: yeah

    malgox: and nigh-infinite, for that matter

    zigavivei: yes

    zigavivei: I like it james

    zigavivei: Im trying to think if any game has tried to implement something like it before

    malgox: this idea's already being implements in tabletop games, but I think computer games could model the combinations interestingly

    malgox: a tabletop game with a similar idea, but combined only to character creation: http://www.kickstart...from-monte-cook

    malgox: also, you can probably see the influence of Binding of Isaac on my thinking, in so far as each new ability "reshapes" your existing ones

    malgox: and literally changes your appearence

    malgox: so, yeah

    malgox: a guy can dream

    malgox: get me in touch with a games designer and we'll see what we can do

    and, also, a couple parting thoughts:

    zigavivei: Tis guys kickstarter is interesting I just dont have too much background in tabletop

    zigavivei: Well, the results

    malgox: i really like Monte Cook

    malgox: but you see how basic, yet deep the character creation idea is

    zigavivei: yeah

    malgox: if you modelled something like that on a computer... imagine what sort of interesting programming you could do

    malgox: it really could be like alchemy

    zigavivei: yeah

    malgox: each trait is assigned certain modifiers, or whatever

    malgox: but they'd combine in interesting ways

    malgox: oh!

    malgox: something kind of like this; that Gameboy game "Golden Sun"

    zigavivei: never played it but i know what youre going at

    malgox: in golden sun there are a bunch of "jinn"

    malgox: you give them to people and their classes morph

    malgox: sometimes surprisingly

    malgox: they literally become different classes based on what "jinn" they carry

    zigavivei: kinda like FF* and the Eidolon system

    zigavivei: FF8

    malgox: oh, is that how FF8 works?

    zigavivei: You can equip Eidolons who determmine your stats

    zigavivei: they level up along with you

    zigavivei: and each one has a particular style

    malgox: yeah--that's sweet

    malgox: I like that idea

  2. Hello folks.

    My story's like most of you; 'been listening to the cast for a while and wanted to sign up to participate in some sort of conversation. Unfortunately, I was turned-on to the whole thing right as the Kickstarter ended.

    Still, video games are too interesting to keep to oneself. I'm looking forward to getting some vicarious social engagement through this forum.

    See you around,

  3. I'm excited about this, but wary that it may be all-too common high-fantasy fare. Part of my soul dies every time I see an elf in furs with a longbow. An elf in an evening suit with a crowbar, however, might be more palatable. :)

    Though I love infinity-engine games, I feel like RPG-makers have been a bit too slavish in trying to recreate them. With BG: Enhanced edition coming out and what-not, I just hope they can do something more than cash in on nostalgia.